Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > Stehekin business owners challenge transportation access to Lake Chelan
Previous :: Next Topic  
Author Message
seawallrunner
dilettante



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 3245 | TRs
Location: Lotusland
seawallrunner
  Top

dilettante
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 11:12 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Very interesting court case about transportation access to Lake Chelan. 15 minute video. Ramifications of this law begin at 13:00 minutes

Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 16546 | TRs

Slugman
  Top

It’s a Slugfest!
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 11:53 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I have no idea if they will be successful. But I do not like the reasoning. Basically it comes down to “but I really WANT to”. Lobby to change the law, or convince the state it is in the public interest. Poor guy, had to leave Seattle at 4:30 in the morning.

I notice they never once mention how others on the lake feel about their scheme. I’ll venture a guess they don’t like it.

This is an attempt to destroy the rights of the people to limit commercial activity. Maybe the brothers should have opened a business in an accessible location.

This is clearly a political topic, but also a land stewardship issue, so I think it is OK to be on the forum, but should be in Public Land Stewardship.

--------------
“The jerking motion of a knee does not reflect the operation of a mind”  Slugman, January 24th 2020
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
CC
cascade curmudgeon



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 566 | TRs

CC
  Top

cascade curmudgeon
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 2:07 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
How old is this video, it looks like they already have their ferry.

https://www.stehekinferry.com/about

Since we (tax payers, Chelan PUD owners) already subsidize Stehekin business owners, I'm actually surprised they didn't ask government to provide the ferry.

--------------
No matter how cynical you become, it's not enough to keep up.  Jane Wagner/Lily Tomlin
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10076 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 2:22 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Slugman wrote:
I have no idea if they will be successful. But I do not like the reasoning. Basically it comes down to “but I really WANT to”. Lobby to change the law, or convince the state it is in the public interest. Poor guy, had to leave Seattle at 4:30 in the morning.

I notice they never once mention how others on the lake feel about their scheme. I’ll venture a guess they don’t like it.

This is an attempt to destroy the rights of the people to limit commercial activity. Maybe the brothers should have opened a business in an accessible location.

This is clearly a political topic, but also a land stewardship issue, so I think it is OK to be on the forum, but should be in Public Land Stewardship.

I'm watching my way through the video, but one thing that pops up is that the Courtneys lived in the area prior to the existence of the park and recreation area.  The local population was mostly against turning the area into a park.  Courtney's and not sure, Millers?  had a business running horse packing trips in the Stehekin back country before the park existed.  There's a bit of history there.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Schroder
Member
Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 5825 | TRs
Location: on the beach
Schroder
  Top

Member
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 3:48 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
This is an interesting case & will have impacts beyond just Lake Chelan but also to the ferry system on Puget Sound. The only private ferry's have been the Black Ball from Port Angeles to Victoria and the Victoria Clipper and they've been allowed under the law because they cross an international border.

I've only been on the Stehekin Ferry twice in the past 10 years and one of those times it broke down coming back to Chelan. It's an old boat and the crew didn't seem very competent. Without any competition they don't really need to care.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Seventy2002
Member
Member


Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 462 | TRs

Seventy2002
  Top

Member
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 7:48 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
CC wrote:
How old is this video, it looks like they already have their ferry.

Posted Dec 29, 2020.

The Utilities and Transportation Commission granted the Courtneys a "Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity to Operate Vessels in Furnishing Passenger Ferry Service " in May, 2019.
Looks like the ferry started running in May 2020.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
jinx'sboy
Member
Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 632 | TRs
Location: on a great circle route
jinx'sboy
  Top

Member
PostSat Jan 02, 2021 9:00 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I watched part of the video....and also thought they had started running this summer.

Sure enough:  https://www.stehekinferry.com/about

Looking at the schedule - they make it from Fields Point to Stehekin in 1.45 hours.
The’old’ Lake Chelan Ferry is about the same time, but slightly higher price.

Looks like a win for customers.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1303 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
  Top

BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSun Jan 03, 2021 1:16 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
What's confusing is I don't understand why the state is/was claiming sole jurisdiction in the matter when so much of the lake is within Federal lands - probably over 50%, right?

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
altasnob
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 462 | TRs
Location: Tacoma
altasnob
  Top

Member
PostSun Jan 03, 2021 3:03 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk wrote:
What's confusing is I don't understand why the state is/was claiming sole jurisdiction in the matter when so much of the lake is within Federal lands - probably over 50%, right?

From the 9th Circuit decision ruling against the Courtney's, "[h]istorically, states—not the federal government—regulated ferry franchises with the power to exclude a franchisee’s potential competitors from the market. An intrastate ferry franchise is a property right, and rights of commerce give no authority to their possessor to invade the rights of property.”

As others have pointed out, the Courtney's have already got what they want and the second ferry is now operating. So why is the case still pending in the US Supreme Court? I noticed Courtney's are represented by the Institute for Justice, a libertarian law firm.

It also appears the other Chelan ferry, The Lake Chelan Boat Company, is also owned by a Courtney. Not sure it is all one giant company now or separate. Sounds like most people living in Stehiken are a Courtney.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
Cyclopath
Faster than light



Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Posts: 4756 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Cyclopath
  Top

Faster than light
PostSun Jan 03, 2021 3:37 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I tried to watch the video but it was too smarmy and I couldn't take more than about a minute of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist



Joined: 07 Sep 2018
Posts: 1303 | TRs
Location: Seattle
Anne Elk
  Top

BrontosaurusTheorist
PostSun Jan 03, 2021 3:57 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Thanks for the clarification, Altasnob, but it raises more questions.

What makes ferries so different than other forms of water commerce?  Like whale-watching tours,  tourist fishing operations, etc? Sounds like the state had the right to regulate ferries the way (historically) cities regulated taxi companies.  I don't see the public benefit.

The Courtney family goes way back. I first heard of them shortly after arriving in Seattle: there was an essay/remembrance of Ray Courtney in a now-defunct local magazine -  he'd been killed in a trail-riding mishap.  The Courtneys were smart to start-up another biz to support their outfitting and the Stehekin community; sounds like the condition and schedule of the Lady of the Lake sure wasn't. It was taking a huge risk - the old saying about boats being holes in the water you pour $$ into, is sure true. Good on them for stepping up.

--------------
"There are yahoos out there.  It’s why we can’t have nice things."  - Tom Mahood
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10076 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostSun Jan 03, 2021 7:13 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I seem to recall that the Chelan Boat company sold recently?

Anyway, the Lady of the Lake in some form, has been ongoing for eons.  During my kidhood, we went up to Chelan almost every weekend in the summer.  Mom was from there and had family there.  We would swim at Lakeside and the highlight of the day was paddling out on your air mattress or tube to ride the wake of the Lady of the Lake back to shore.

I've never heard complaints about the service. I rode it up and back one time just for the heck of it.  The same company would haul a barge up the lake when something big had to be delivered.  Of course, the service is cut back in the winter.  People in a hurry have the option of a float plane service to use.

Another long time dispute is also over.  The fill dumped in the lake to make a couple of waterfront building sites which was done in the 1960s has finally been approved and I imagine a couple of mansions will soon block the view of the lake in that place.

It's yet another unaffordable place for most of us.

Prior to the park and the wilderness act, they used to have some pretty large pack trips out of Stehekin.  The Wenatchee World would have a ride every summer and do a big write up on it.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Stefan
Member
Member


Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4645 | TRs

Stefan
  Top

Member
PostMon Jan 04, 2021 3:33 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Don't the Courtneys have the opportunity to petition for a license every so or few years for a "concession" like service?  If there is ONE concession, there does need to be some type of "competitive bid" every few years for operation.  How does the Channel Islands (also a National Park) with a waterway operate on a concession basis?

--------------
Art is an adventure.
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Send e-mail Reply to topic Reply with quote
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 10076 | TRs
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
  Top

Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostMon Jan 04, 2021 3:52 pm 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Don't forget about the Apostle Islands.. They have boats that drop off folks.

--------------
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
Sculpin
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 809 | TRs

Sculpin
  Top

Member
PostTue Jan 05, 2021 8:03 am 
Reply to topic Reply with quote
I suspect there are folks in Stehekin who lack the ability (read: a motor boat) to get to Chelan on their own.  This means that they depend upon ferry service for food and medicine.  Because of this, I think the ferry is considered part of the state transportation system, with an obligation to provide service under all circumstances.  That is so folks in Stehekin won't starve if private ferry workers go on strike for six months.

I tried to find confirmation of this on the net but came up empty.  I watched the entire video; I wish they had been a little more forthcoming on the rationale given by the courts for dismissing the lower-level cases that hinged on the ability of the state to regulate ferry competition, but instead they spent a lot of time just repeating the same aspects of their own case.

--------------
Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Back to top
View user's profile Search for posts by this user Send private message Reply to topic Reply with quote
  Display:     All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Forum Index > Full Moon Saloon > Stehekin business owners challenge transportation access to Lake Chelan
  Happy Birthday wbs, Matt Lemke, Roachapproach!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
   Use Disclaimer Powered by phpBB Privacy Policy