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RumiDude
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 4:58 pm 
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I thought this was an interesting piece from the Colorado Search & Rescue Association.

From the article: "As an example of inappropriate public expectations, during a late spring mission on one of Coloradoís more challenging fourteeners, several technical rescue team members climbed for eight hours to provide equipment and support to rescue subjects who had become stranded in ice and snow after losing their ice axes and ropes. The subjects had asked via cellphone for a helicopter but had been told that no helo would be available until the next day. When the rescue team members reached them, they declined assistance and said they were tired and would prefer to stay overnight and wait for a hoist the next morning.

Helicopters are a great tool as a last resort in a dire situation, but they are not an Uber. We use all other available resources before asking for these federal assets. We donít use COARNG at night, and any incident using COARNG resources generally takes at least five hours. A helicopter hoist operation is a specialized, dangerous, expensive process, and for 99% of SAR incidents, it isnít the best answer. Most incidents require ďground pounders;Ē teams of rescuers that come in on foot."


Not trying to stir up an argument, but sometimes a good discussion of pros/cons makes us think clearly about situations. Again from the article: "The criteria for a COARNG evacuation is that life, limb, or eyesight must be threatened. CHRT members accept the risks these incidents pose, but only when there is truly a need. Luckily for the residents and visitors to Colorado, CSAR helps coordinate many missions each year in which the patient would likely have died or been permanently disabled if a helicopter had not been available."
COARNG = COlorado ARmy National Guard.

Rumi

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Matt Lemke
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 6:40 pm 
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This is Colorado... this is not surprising unfortunately.

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rossb
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 7:29 pm 
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Wow. That's nuts. I get why people do stupid things in the mountains. I get why people realize, far too late, that it is harder to go down than up, or that you can't really do that loop you had in mind, because there is a terrible drop off.

But this is crazy. What are these folks thinking? "Oh, I'm sorry, a dangerous, but life-saving rescue just doesn't work for me today -- can I pencil you in for Tuesday?"

Holy cow, such arrogance and ignorance.
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neek
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 7:45 pm 
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I have a good response, but am too lazy to type it up. Maybe SAR could do that for me.
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Chief Joseph
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 8:10 pm 
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They should have a stipulation that if they refuse the immediate rescue, they then will be required to pay for the Heli rescue the following day...or just say, come with us now or you're on your own.

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Cyclopath
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 8:33 pm 
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rossb wrote:
But this is crazy. What are these folks thinking? "Oh, I'm sorry, a dangerous, but life-saving rescue just doesn't work for me today -- can I pencil you in for Tuesday?"

Holy cow, such arrogance and ignorance.

Sorry for the bizarre segue but you reminded me of this.

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Anne Elk
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PostSat Jan 02, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
They should have a stipulation that if they refuse the immediate rescue, they then will be required to pay for the Heli rescue the following day...or just say, come with us now or you're on your own.

The article in Rumi's OP doesn't detail what the outcome of that SAR operation was, and it would be interesting to know. Whoever heard of a situation where, once a rescue is underway, the rescuee gets to refuse if it's not to their liking? I'm reminded again of what ex-Montana SAR member Tom Vines wrote over 20 years ago in his WSJ editorial, "No Easy Fix for the Beartooth Panic":

"Some state legislatures, such as those in California and Oregon, are reacting to the abuse of backcountry emergency systems by creating laws to charge for search and rescue. But these new laws have proved difficult to enforce and fees difficult to collect. This is due not only to vagaries in the laws and potential conflict with traditional legal code, but because they fail to address the essential problem. There seems to be an increasing failure in our culture's value system whereby self indulgence is the norm, while self discipline and personal courage are discarded as relics of the past."

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Chief Joseph
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 12:37 am 
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Thanks for posting that Anne, I kind of figured that was the case. Laws and threats of lawsuits many times don't jibe with common sense.

People in this country are too soft and entitled, I still think they should either let the rescuers do their job or stay there and fend for themselves. Not much "Tough Love" happening these days and it shows.

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hikerman
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 5:15 am 
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Reminds me of the Mt St Helens rescue in 2013.
Rescue crews go up the mountain, stoke the subject down 2000 ft and take a break. They aren't going fast enough for her and she contracts a private helicopter to fly her and her daughter off the mountain.
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Schroder
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 8:18 am 
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A few years ago three of us retirees from Everett Mountain Rescue were coming down from Pilchuck Lookout and came upon a woman with a twisted ankle. We offered to help her partner carry her back down the trail but they declined, saying they were waiting for SAR. When we got to the trailhead, we talked to one person from SAR that was starting up alone to her and said it would be an all-nighter because everyone else was on a more critical mission.
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moonspots
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 10:52 am 
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neek wrote:
I have a good response, but am too lazy to type it up. Maybe SAR could do that for me.

lol.gif  up.gif

Good one.  wink.gif

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moonspots
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 10:55 am 
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Chief Joseph wrote:
People in this country are too soft and entitled, I still think they should either let the rescuers do their job or stay there and fend for themselves. Not much "Tough Love" happening these days and it shows.

Well said, Chief Joseph! Exactly right!

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neek
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 11:05 am 
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SOME people, not all.  I know of a guy who recently spent several hours hiking out while having a heart attack.  I'm not sure that's the best idea!  There are probably many cases where people should have called SAR, but didn't - due to pride, shame, ignorance, or whatever.
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BigBrunyon
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 2:47 pm 
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Ah, if its in your budget just call em up. Just PAY. Nothin money can't fix. These rescue types are there at your disposal if you can afford the convenience fee. This approach allows for more technical climbs, no real worries if you get in over your head, just call em up. Just PAY.

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Chief Joseph
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PostSun Jan 03, 2021 3:17 pm 
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I agree ^^^ If you play, you gotta pay!

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