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Sculpin
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PostThu Jan 28, 2021 7:59 am 
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Ski wrote:
Easier to speak from the delusional position of "let nature take its course" and hold onto the belief in the myth that the entire north American continent was covered from sea to shining sea with verdant "old growth" forest in the pre-Columbian era.
Also helping to reinforce that mindset is ignoring the purpose and reason for creating the United States Forest Service and the Bureau of Lands Management - believing instead that it was "set aside" solely for the purpose of recreationists who contribute virtually nothing monetarily to maintain the existing infrastructure or pay for administrative staff.

This one is a little more articulate than your more slapdash versions of this particular straw man.  Just hit control "C" and you can paste this in every stewardship thread, save yourself some typing.

Mind if I take a little survey?

Any readers out there who:

1.  Believe native Americans had zero influence on the land?
2.  Believe that all public lands were set aside for recreation?

Please own up to your transgressions, Mr. Ski would like to have a word with you!   winksmile.gif

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Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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Ski
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PostThu Jan 28, 2021 4:01 pm 
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treeswarper wrote:
"...the local elk population disappeared in the pre European times (Randle Packwood area)..."

Not a clue on that one, sorry.
Any idea of the dates when those instances may have occurred?

For reasons unrelated to this discussion I got in touch with an old contact who worked for Harry Cody, who passed on some interesting points which might have some bearing on your statement:

B.R., in an email of 02/28/21 wrote:
Years ago, in my previous life at the USFS, I talked with James Agee, a fire ecologist from the U of W. He had done a lot of work about fire in the PNW. He said that during the 1400s-1500s, when temps in the Northern Hemisphere were much warmer and it was dryer, virtually all forests in WA burned from the summit of the Cascades to the saltwater. He found evidence of those fires and the timing and noted there were only a few small areas that survived, including around Mt. Rainier, in the Olympic Mtns on the peninsula and in the northern Cascades. Hence, there are very few stands of timber over about 500 yrs of age. Individual trees, yes, but very few blocks of trees together. That was irrespective of Native American burning although it could have been associated with it at times.
Attached is an article I wrote last summer when it was smoky around here. It references Agee.

I can't copy and paste the article here as it was sent to me in *.rtf format. It concerns the effects of the Yacolt fire of 1902, and mentions stories passed down from "old timers" about a much larger fire which occurred in 1868. If you want to shoot me an email addy via p/m I can forward them to you.

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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. 
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Land Management Prior to European Settlement
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