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Cyclopath
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 10:57 am 
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Do you have trouble remembering to keep the second phone charged?  Or to bring it?  Any tricks you use to remember?
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mike
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 11:28 am 
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jstluise wrote:
I would be interested to know what others use for cataloging trips....

I record a gpx track with my Garmin gps  and/or phone (OsmAnd) then import into BaseCamp and edit out the crap and save. Some tracks I upload back to phone or gps for future reference. Also ocasionally I upload to OSM and edit there. Tracks I use for mapping I convert to shape files.
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Riverside Laker
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 11:35 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
Do you have trouble remembering to keep the second phone charged?  Or to bring it?  Any tricks you use to remember?

Well, I've forgotten boots several times, my entire backpack once, and numerous other things. Sometimes ya gotta be like the indigenous peoples, and get by with what you have.

Sometimes I track with my bike head unit (Wahoo Bolt), which has crude maps that are easy to upload with RideWithGPS. But it doesn't work as well as my phone in the trees.
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jstluise
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 11:58 am 
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Cyclopath wrote:
Garmin Connect is excellent for this.  Most people just use Strava because it's more convenient unless you have a modern Garmin.

Cool, I'll check it out. Actually for most of the stuff I do it ends up going to Strava, either directly or through Polar Beat if I'm using a heart rate monitor. I usually do that for training or activities where I'm not too concerned about navigation and battery life...basically just to log the activity. If it's something I'm really interested in saving I'll export it to Caltopo or Basecamp.

Side note: My one gripe with Polar Beat is that the app doesn't work in airplane mode. Why?! There's times where I'll have a full day outing and would be interested in heart rate data but still want to conserve battery life. The paid version of Strava would fix this, but I'm sure there are other solutions out there.

If it's a more serious trip where I've done a lot of planning and I really need the navigation and battery life, the phone goes into airplane mode and I use Gaia offline. I'll also carry a 5000 mAh battery backup for the phone just in case.

I do recall now why I've stuck with Basecamp for storing my tracks. I found that Caltopo (free version at least) doesn't handle timestamp data very well. You can store the original track with timestamp data, but you can't view times and as soon as you edit the track the timestamp data will be deleted. So, I'll use Basecamp editing and storing tracks to maintain the timestamp data. Going back and looking at the timing of past trips or similar objectives has been valuable to me when planning trips. The easiest solution is to just capture everything with Strava or Gaia, but I like the interface of Basecamp if I really want the fine details of the track.

Something interesting: One thing I noticed when playing around with Strava and Gaia is that they must have built in elevation models to report more accurate elevation data. I found that the elevation gain/loss reported in Gaia was way different than what was reported in Basecamp. Basecamp reads the raw track data and if the elevation data is noisy (GPS elevation is usually noisy), there's potential for inaccurate elevation gain/loss numbers. I found that running the .gpx track through a elevation model corrects this (https://www.gpsvisualizer.com/elevation). You may also have to resample the track as well if points are too close together/overlapping to further improve elevation and distance numbers. One trip I had with ~13k' gain ended up having ~1200' of noisy elevation data!
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Cyclopath
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Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 12:27 pm 
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I don't know about Gaia but Strava reprocesses the data when it hits the server.  Unless the data comes from a dedicated GPS with a barometric altimeter they ignore the elevation data in the file and use their database instead.  (They also calculate your distance and speed themselves from the raw data instead of using the summary, so they'll disagree slightly on those too.) From your observations it sounds like Gaia does this too.

jstluise wrote:
Side note: My one gripe with Polar Beat is that the app doesn't work in airplane mode. Why?!

Don't meant to offend if this is too obvious but have you tried turning Bluetooth on after you put the phone in airplane mode?  I don't know if that's even what you mean.
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jstluise
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 1:01 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
I don't know about Gaia but Strava reprocesses the data when it hits the server.  Unless the data comes from a dedicated GPS with a barometric altimeter they ignore the elevation data in the file and use their database instead.  (They also calculate your distance and speed themselves from the raw data instead of using the summary, so they'll disagree slightly on those too.) From your observations it sounds like Gaia does this too.

Good to know! Yeah, sounds like Gaia does something similar.

Cyclopath wrote:
Don't meant to offend if this is too obvious but have you tried turning Bluetooth on after you put the phone in airplane mode?  I don't know if that's even what you mean.

Ha! Not offended at all. Yeah, I've tried that with no luck. Before beginning an activity in Polar Beat the app will indicate if your HRM is connected (and display HR) and if you have a GPS lock. In airplane mode (with GPS and BT on), the indicators change colors don't report anything. I emailed Polar about it years ago and they said it wasn't possible. I think at one point the app would warn me to turn off airplane mode.

I did just play around with it and even though it wasn't reporting HR or GPS, I could start the activity and see it logging HR but not GPS. So the HRM is actually connected and working, but evidentially not GPS. There's probably a way to combine HR data with GPS data after the fact, but would rather just find a solution that logs both together.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 1:18 pm 
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What phone and Polar do you have?
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jstluise
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 1:22 pm 
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Cyclopath wrote:
What phone and Polar do you have?

Polar H10 and a Galaxy S8. I haven't tried it on iPhone or any other Android.
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Cyclopath
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 1:50 pm 
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I've been using a N8 for the past couple years.   smile.gif  It leaves GPS on in airplane mode so that's probably not what's going on.  Also, if Strava (premium) can do it, it can be done...

The most cost effective way is going to be an app.  Check out S Health, it's probably already installed on your phone.  I don't know if it'll do what you want or not, I do know that it can talk to my power meter which is a lot more than I expected.

I use a Garmin watch, it's a $$ solution.  It does a lot that I find valuable, I'm not sure that would be the case for you based on what you've said.  But it lets me see my HR on my wrist in real time, how much time I've spent so far in each zone, etc.  It also does the recording, so my phone doesn't run the GPS and I can use the battery taking pictures instead.   smile.gif  I can see the distance, cumulative elevation gain vs what's left, etc, on my wrist so I don't need to get my phone out.  It works extremely well, but it's obviously not the most bang for the buck answer.
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jstluise
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PostFri Feb 19, 2021 4:07 pm 
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Thanks for the reminder about S Health. I just played with it briefly and looks like it will be a great alternative to Polar Beat. Works in airplane mode and syncs with Strava, so I'll have to experiment with it. Likely won't have a need for Polar Beat anymore.

I've been drooling over a Garmin watch for years but never pulled the trigger. I thought it would be fun to play with, but I couldn't justify the cost because I was getting by fine without it. I also already have a Casio Pathfinder to use in the mountains, so that was another reason I held off on a fancier watch. HOWEVER, I recently learned about the Garmin Instinct Solar. It's not as fancy as a Fenix, but that's fine with me since it brings the cost down and will do everything I care anyway. The biggest selling point was the battery life. Even without considering solar it's pretty amazing. I've been more interested in zone training lately so it would be nice to have, and it will provide a backup GPS in the field. I plan to get one soon.
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Gregory
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PostSat Feb 20, 2021 12:53 pm 
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I use onX hunting app. I have used it off trail inn the Olympics for a few years now and love it. I can not say it is better or worse than Gaia as I have never used Gaia. I looked at Gaia and found many of the DNR roads were not there or wrong on the west end and found onX was spot on.Gaia has since updated and are spot on. One of the reasons I love onX is that it tells me exactly whose property I am on whether it be federal, state or Bill Smiths backyard.
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TheWanderingIndian
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PostSun Feb 21, 2021 10:19 am 
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Other apps to try are footpath, peak finder, and all trails.
Footpath has been a recent favorite because it allows you to build routes for trailed or backcountry routes. It has some good overlays and other maps that allow you to accurately build a route. It gives you all the stats on the route you build (I.e. elevation gain/loss, and grade). I like it because i like to go off trail, and when doing that I can use that apps maps to give me the exact grade a distance i plan to do. I can also use it offline and track my distance and can pin point my exact location.
Peak finder is just a fun little handy tool you can use. It pin points a location you pick or your location and then tells you the peaks that are in view from that spot. Plus it names the peaks, tells you the elevation, and my favorite part-it tells you the exact time from the pin pointed spot that the sun will rise and set above and below the surrounding ridges. So if you’ve ever been somewhere/anywhere and wondered “what’s that peak there” well look no further peak finder is your app. Again it can be used offline to.
Last is all trails, a pretty basic trail app but still good but can be glitchy sometimes when starting it up but otherwise it’s still handy.
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Foist
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PostMon Feb 22, 2021 9:03 am 
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I absolutely love Caltopo, both on the desktop and the app on my Android phone.  The app is only a couple years old but they have done a great job making it very useful and powerful very quickly.
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RichP
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PostMon Feb 22, 2021 9:23 am 
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Very informative thread. I'm still a paper map kind of guy but am looking to add another layer.
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jstluise
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PostMon Feb 22, 2021 9:45 am 
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RichP wrote:
Very informative thread. I'm still a paper map kind of guy but am looking to add another layer.

Here's a tip to get you going. Caltopo online has is the ability to export maps as .pdf in a specific scale. So after you have routes and waypoints planned out, you can very easily export and print any map layer of any region you want in 100k or 24k. I always carry a paper map and compass, so when I discovered this feature I was stoked! I know you can print maps in other programs, but printing to scale is a great feature.

Another great feature (free) Caltopo has is what they call 'KML Network Link'. Essentially you can link Google Earth to Caltopo so that as you plan your trip in Caltopo, any routes/waypoints/tracks are automatically shown in Google Earth. Super handy for planning off-trail adventures. If I recall correctly, this feature used to be for paid members only, but now anyone can use it. Before you only had the option to download a KML file for Google Earth which gets you the same thing but without the auto syncing.
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