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InFlight
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PostSun Mar 28, 2021 6:11 pm 
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Mowich Lake is a pretty crummy camping site, mostly hard pan gravel.  The Spray Park and Wonderland loop is the only real reason to go there.

There are plenty of bad potholed gravel roads to access wildernesses areas, the longer distanced ones seem to get called out more.  There is no real money allocated to maintaining most of these, so they are what they are.

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Schroder
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PostMon Mar 29, 2021 12:28 pm 
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InFlight wrote:
Mowich Lake is a pretty crummy camping site, mostly hard pan gravel.

The reason is that it all used to be the parking lot. The only camping was around the shore of the lake and when they eliminated that they moved the sites to the parking lot.
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seahuskies
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PostMon Mar 29, 2021 12:52 pm 
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kiliki wrote:
Going back to the Mowich Rd issue, it seems like a person could contact the state senator/reps in that district to see if this is on their radar. It seems like grading the road would happen because local politicians would make it happen. They might care about the condition of the road because a good road attracts more tourists and recreational visitors. Looks like it's District 2. These guys might not care if you aren't a constituent, but maybe one of you is.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/

You can just zoom in on that map to find the legislators, no address needed.

I am interested in doing the same but what is the best way to word this to officials? I'm unfamiliar with the process of how they are securing all of these camp sites and reducing sites for non-commercial entities but don't want to come across totally uninformed.
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Malachai Constant
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PostMon Mar 29, 2021 12:56 pm 
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We camped there once after doing a long loop when Carbon River was closed. It was mediocre then a Boy Scout troop moved in and began starting fires when fires were prohibited. We complained to their leaders who did nothing and said the Ranger told them to camp there. We ended up packing up and heading home which was probably what they wanted. Nie Wieder!

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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kiliki
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PostTue Mar 30, 2021 2:50 pm 
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seahuskies wrote:
kiliki wrote:
Going back to the Mowich Rd issue, it seems like a person could contact the state senator/reps in that district to see if this is on their radar. It seems like grading the road would happen because local politicians would make it happen. They might care about the condition of the road because a good road attracts more tourists and recreational visitors. Looks like it's District 2. These guys might not care if you aren't a constituent, but maybe one of you is.

https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/

You can just zoom in on that map to find the legislators, no address needed.

I am interested in doing the same but what is the best way to word this to officials? I'm unfamiliar with the process of how they are securing all of these camp sites and reducing sites for non-commercial entities but don't want to come across totally uninformed.

I don't want to put words in your mouth and tell you what to be concerned with. I personally am concerned when a for-profit business gets access to something on public lands that it is hard for members of the public to get. So in this case, it's campground reservations for their groups, though many times I find it really difficult to get my own campground reservation. These companies have gotten to reserve dates before the rest of us get to. I think it's fine to write to express concern and even ask questions if you don't feel as educated as you'd like.

One thing you could do is check out the businesses authorized to use MRNP:
https://www.nps.gov/mora/getinvolved/current-cua.htm

And then you can look at what these companies offer at Rainier. There's quite a few that get to use campground space. Aspire, for example, gets to reserve space at Mowich Lake and White River.

I also notice Aspire has all sorts of backcountry runs in the kind of places that I would purposely choose to visit when I was trying to get away from people. Desolation Peak, East Bank Ross Lake, Sucia Island, Cypress Island. What a bummer to have journeyed to Desolation, to have paid for the water taxi, etc and get there and find a trail running rally.
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Randito
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PostTue Mar 30, 2021 4:50 pm 
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kiliki wrote:
What a bummer to have journeyed to Desolation, to have paid for the water taxi, etc and get there and find a trail running rally.

Good thing the publish their calendar so you can avoid their hordes.

https://www.aspireadventurerunning.com/calendar/

Probably a good idea to check these calendars too:

https://www.mountaineers.org/activities/activities

https://www.mountaineers.org/courses/courses-clinics-seminars#c11=Course
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kiliki
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 8:37 am 
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Randito wrote:
kiliki wrote:
What a bummer to have journeyed to Desolation, to have paid for the water taxi, etc and get there and find a trail running rally.

Good thing the publish their calendar so you can avoid their hordes.

https://www.aspireadventurerunning.com/calendar/

Probably a good idea to check these calendars too:

https://www.mountaineers.org/activities/activities

https://www.mountaineers.org/courses/courses-clinics-seminars#c11=Course

Right, though there are also plenty of other companies on that concession list that are authorized to provide group camping, backpacking, day hiking and all sorts of other group activities...
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Sallie4jo
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 11:21 am 
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Did no drive the road last summer...it was in the best shape it's been in 4 years..like the n fork Teanaway.   To me the road is less of an issue..its the commercialization and us reg folks getting kicked off the playing field. The mowich road since the 70s been a long drive with so many pot hole and washboard crazy.  All weather roads will never b pavement..the wild is better 4 it.  Let's pursue getting the big companies out of the parks.  It's like everest..if people had to do it themselves they would either research and learn or not go.

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Randito
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 11:48 am 
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kiliki wrote:
Right, though there are also plenty of other companies on that concession list that are authorized to provide group camping, backpacking, day hiking and all sorts of other group activities...

Part of the Department of Interior's mission statement reads (emphasis added):

Quote:
Increase access to outdoor recreation opportunities for all Americans so that our people can be healthier, more fully enjoy the wonderful features of their federal lands, and take advantage of hunting, fishing, and other outdoor recreation pursuits that are the roots of the conservation movement.

It seems to me that permitting guiding companies to organize and support activities that people may lack the knowledge, training, resources, confidence, etc to undertake individually seems perfectly in support of that part of the mission statement.
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uww
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 1:04 pm 
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Randito wrote:

It seems to me that permitting guiding companies to organize and support activities that people may lack the knowledge, training, resources, confidence, etc to undertake individually seems perfectly in support of that part of the mission statement.

Reducing access to campgrounds for Americans who do not want to undertake particular fee based activities does not seem to support that mission.
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Randito
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 1:21 pm 
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uww wrote:
fee based activities

Entering the park is a fee based activity.

So your objection is whether the fee is rendered to the federal government directly or to a guide service?
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uww
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 3:21 pm 
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No, that obviously was not my objection.

I object that certain groups are allowed to make advance reservations for limited public campsites, but if you simply are an American who enjoys camping then you may not. The fact that these groups seek to profit from using their advantages to limit others access to a public resource makes it worse.
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Slugman
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 4:23 pm 
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Any time one person gets something of this nature it is then denied to everyone else.

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uww
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 6:11 pm 
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Slugman wrote:
Any time one person gets something of this nature it is then denied to everyone else.

That's why I think everyone should have the same opportunities and nobody should get special treatment.
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Randito
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PostWed Mar 31, 2021 6:42 pm 
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uww wrote:
Slugman wrote:
Any time one person gets something of this nature it is then denied to everyone else.

That's why I think everyone should have the same opportunities and nobody should get special treatment.

Ever try getting a float permit for the Colorado River through the grand canyon where 90% of the available space are pre-allocated to commercial operations?
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