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kiliki Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2003 Posts: 2310 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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kiliki
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:55 am
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I agree with both takes. This seems to transcend the trail etiquette debate. Two violent and irrational people came into contact; it could have happened in a parking lot or grocery store or anywhere. But there does seem to be more and more of these narcissist types out there. Are people right when they say there is more of an emphasis on individualism and less on community now? I can see reasons why this would be correct. And of course we hear about every little thing that happens anywhere these days.
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:08 am
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I try not to judge millions of people on the actions of a tiny number of people.
I don’t see any trend here, but if I was to imagine one, it would be about trails being massively more crowded now than pre-pandemic. Add to that the feeling that anyone who comes too close is committing a provocative act. Stir in some general frustration and frayed nerves, and I’m surprised there aren’t more trail stabbings.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7697 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:10 am
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kiliki wrote: | I agree with both takes. This seems to transcend the trail etiquette debate. Two violent and irrational people came into contact; it could have happened in a parking lot or grocery store or anywhere. But there does seem to be more and more of these narcissist types out there. Are people right when they say there is more of an emphasis on individualism and less on community now? I can see reasons why this would be correct. And of course we hear about every little thing that happens anywhere these days. |
It sounds like there's a cyclist that got stabbed, and a hiker that grabbed his handlebars knocking him down and then stabbed him repeatedly.
How does being attacked by a hiker make the victim a violent person???
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Brian R Member
Joined: 10 Feb 2018 Posts: 501 | TRs | Pics
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Brian R
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:10 am
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7697 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:29 am
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Randito wrote: | Agreed, but I think it took two egomaniacs to have the situation deteriorate to the degree that it did. |
Bottom line, one human attempted to murder another one. We don't know all the facts but there's a lot of blame for the victim anyway.
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pula58 Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 587 | TRs | Pics
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pula58
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:38 am
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Cyclopath wrote: | Randito wrote: | Agreed, but I think it took two egomaniacs to have the situation deteriorate to the degree that it did. |
Bottom line, one human attempted to murder another one. We don't know all the facts but there's a lot of blame for the victim anyway. |
Courtesy, and tolerance seem to be in short supply these days.
I have always thought of courtesy as a kind of grease/lubricant that helps to tone-down interpersonal frictions.
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2329 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:58 am
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This is a great example of how quickly situations can escalate. 1. failure to yield -> 2. handlebar grab -> 3. stabby stab. When you get to that final stage it's no longer about courtesy, but about the brain switching to an irrational panic mode. The guy probably truly thought on some animal level that he was in a fight for his life. The fact that he was carrying a switchblade in the first place suggests he was a bit paranoid to begin with. Unfortunate case, but could have been worse.
Yes, courtesy would have been nice. Courtesy by stepping aside to let the guy struggling uphill pass.
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2329 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:04 pm
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Cyclopath wrote: | It sounds like there's a cyclist that got stabbed, and a hiker that grabbed his handlebars knocking him down and then stabbed him repeatedly. |
Minor detail, but the way I read it, a different hiker grabbed the bars. So Mr. McStabby could very well have mistakenly thought that the biker attacked him rather than was pushed onto him.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7697 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:06 pm
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pula58 wrote: | Courtesy, and tolerance seem to be in short supply these days.
I have always thought of courtesy as a kind of grease/lubricant that helps to tone-down interpersonal frictions. |
I agree and that's why I always yield to uphill traffic whether I'm strictly required to or just being nice.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9495 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:21 pm
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I think there is much we don't know. E.g. The cyclist states that he "requested" that the hikers yield , but we don't if the "request" was of the form "wold please let me through this tricky section" or "Out of my way assholes!!" We also don't know if this cyclist was a rarity or of he was the Nth of a string of cyclists churning up the trail that the hikers had yielded repeatedly.
I'm sure there is more to the story.
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neek Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2011 Posts: 2329 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle, WA |
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neek
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:36 pm
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Randito wrote: | I think there is much we don't know. E.g. The cyclist states that he "requested" that the hikers yield , but we don't if the "request" was of the form "wold please let me through this tricky section" or "Out of my way assholes!!" We also don't know if this cyclist was a rarity or of he was the Nth of a string of cyclists churning up the trail that the hikers had yielded repeatedly. |
Maybe "Hot Pizza"? There is always more to the story and I hope we hear about the legal outcome. But no amount of rudeness justifies stabbing.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2410 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:46 pm
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You have to wonder about a person who feels the need to carry a switchblade while out for a day hike with a bunch of friends. cascadeclimber wrote: | ...We are in the midst of a crisis of lack of trail decency and situational awareness ... I see it in many forms every single time I'm out, and as I've been hiking and climbing here for almost 30 years, the change I've seen is nothing short of heart-breaking. |
It's just another aspect of the general rise of incivility I've noticed in the last several decades. I don't know what's behind it.
cascadeclimber wrote: | ...Are people right when they say there is more of an emphasis on individualism and less on community now? |
This might be getting at the heart of it - daily lives are so much more insular. It's deeper than not having learned "good manners" for behavior in public. There's little sense of belonging to where you live and caring about it. I grew up in a small(er) city but extended family lived nearby; we walked a block to school; you did most of your shopping in your neighborhood's little biz district. There was a real sense of "this is our place". You never saw deliberate defacement of buildings, parks, etc. It's reflected in the "I'm not gonna mask up because ... freedom" behavior that distinguishes us from places like New Zealand. Or even Canada.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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pula58 Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 587 | TRs | Pics
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pula58
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:49 pm
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neek wrote: | This is a great example of how quickly situations can escalate. 1. failure to yield -> 2. handlebar grab -> 3. stabby stab. When you get to that final stage it's no longer about courtesy, but about the brain switching to an irrational panic mode. The guy probably truly thought on some animal level that he was in a fight for his life. The fact that he was carrying a switchblade in the first place suggests he was a bit paranoid to begin with. Unfortunate case, but could have been worse.
Yes, courtesy would have been nice. Courtesy by stepping aside to let the guy struggling uphill pass. |
Courtesy, for both involved parties, could have stopped it from escalating to the point that it did. But yes, once it gets that far hormones (like adrenaline) and instant reactions take over. A lot of terrible things happen this way.
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pula58 Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 587 | TRs | Pics
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pula58
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:00 pm
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catsp wrote: | Cyclopath wrote: | Bottom line, one human attempted to murder another one. |
Could be I guess.
Or, could be that an old, hard of hearing but adrenaline fueled hiker fought for what he believed to be his life after an angry, aggressive cyclist, carrying not just the weight of himself and his bike, but large titanium chips on each shoulder, volcanically erupted when he wasn't provided the courtesy and right of way to which he was entitled and so richly deserved, steered his Wellgo clipless pedals outfitted $7k carbon steed at the nearest hiker, who simply stiff-armed the bike at the handlebars, suddenly sending the cyclist into both a further fit of rage and the soon-to-be self-defending hiker, upon whom the cyclist decided to rain both blows and a lesson in trail etiquette, albeit ultimately unsuccessfully.
Cyclopath wrote: | We don't know all the facts but there's a lot of blame for the victim anyway. |
We don't know all the facts but we can identify the "victim"? |
Agreed, since none of us were there when it happened we can only make assumptions and guesses as to how this whole thing went awry.
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mosey Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2018 Posts: 165 | TRs | Pics
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mosey
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Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:04 pm
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I'm proud the comments here are nothing like the facebook post, giving the situation the benefit of the doubt. I cannot help but wonder if isolation has anything to do with the situation. I've found many more chatty hikers this year eager for a bit of some stranger's company (and I feel the same), but I'm sure the pendulum occasionally swings the other way. In any case people shouldn't be assaulting each other on the trail, and I'm glad it was just a knife.
FWIW spring assisted blades are OK as long as they are not button activated and require you to start the momentum, the sole button power defines a "springblade." It's possible the nomenclature is being misused.
Quote: | https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.250
(2) "Spring blade knife" means any knife, including a prototype, model, or other sample, with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement. A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife. |
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