Forum Index > Trip Reports > Surveying True Highpoints of Buck Mtn and Mt Berge, June 6, 2021
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Eric Gilbertson
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Eric Gilbertson
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PostMon Jun 07, 2021 4:52 pm 
Buck Mountain (8,560ft), Mt Berge (7,914ft), and Berge North (7,948ft) 47 miles (23 biking, 24 hiking), 10kft gain June 6, 2021, 12am – 7:30pm (Summary: Buck Mtn true summit is south summit, and Mt Berge true summit is northeast summit, both incorrect on peakbagger as of June 6, 2021) I’d recently read some trip reports from Fred, Eric E, and others on nwhikers calling into question the true location and elevation of Mt Berge, one of the top 200 peaks in Washington. Nearby, Buck Mountain, a Bulger peak, also had some uncertainty. The peakbagger peak location is at a surveyed point a bit north of the traditional summit cairn, and the elevation is quoted as that of the surveyed point, not that of the traditional summit. As far as I could tell, these discrepancies had never been rigorously resolved.
On Mt Berge south summit looking towards true north summit with sight level
On Mt Berge south summit looking towards true north summit with sight level
My route
My route
Map showing true summit locations based on my measurements (overlayed on peakbagger  map with false summits as green circles)
Map showing true summit locations based on my measurements (overlayed on peakbagger map with false summits as green circles)
For either peak, anyone wanting to finish the Bulgers or the top 200 will want to visit the true highpoint, of course. But for Berge, the results could potentially drop its ranking to the very lowest of the top 200 peaks. The current lowest is Skeptical Butte at 7,949ft, but if the true summit of Berge is point 7948, it would shift to being the lowest of the top 200 peaks. (Rankings taken from peakbagger.com list). For Berge, the southern, common summit is third class but the northern summit is a bit harder with a 4th class stretch at the top. It sounded from reports on nwhikers (Fred, Eric E) that the north peak of Berge, surveyed point 7948, was actually taller then the peak commonly considered the summit of Mt Berge, despite the common summit showing up as 7,960ft+ on the topo map. Eric E reported his GPS measured pt 7948 about 20ft taller. It’s not uncommon, in my experience, for topo lines to be incorrect like this. For instance, Barbeau Peak, the highest point in the Canadian territory of Nunavut, doesn’t even show up at all in official Canadian topographic maps! Handheld GPS units are helpful, but generally not accurate enough to resolve these discrepancies on the order of a few tens of feet of elevation difference. The three most accurate options I know of to measure summit elevations in these cases are: -Rent a survey-grade GPS unit and bring to the summit. I’ve done this before to survey the true highpoint of Saudi Arabia, where I brought a Trimble Geo 7x to the summit. It theoretically has 10cm vertical accuracy if calibrated with a nearby base station. These units can be rented, but are expensive. -Use a hose level. This works if you have two nearby summits and want to know which is taller. Stretch a hose between them, have a person stand on each summit, and fill the hose with water. The water should flow out of the end of the hose on the shorter summit. -Use a surveyors sight level. Stand on one summit and measure the angular declination or inclination to the other one. If you know the distance between the summits and the angular declination or inclination, you can use trigonometry to figure out the height difference. I didn’t want to pay to rent a fancy GPS, and a hose level was impractical in this case, but I do own a surveyors sight level. I’ve used it to determine that the balanced rock on Sherpa Peak is in fact about 2ft shorter than the western summit. Greg Slayden has used one to determine the true highpoint of Mt Buckner (the SW peak is about 2ft taller than the NE peak). So I decided to go in to Buck and Berge and try to take some measurements. The road in to the standard trailhead at Trinity is currently still gated, meaning there is an extra 11 mile road approach. This sounded enticing to me, since I’d get to involve my mountain bike for a multisport adventure. Based on satellite images there was just a little bit of patchy snow past the Phelps Creek turnoff, so looked like I could bike most of it. This would be much easier than May 2020 when I could bike half way and then had to ski the other half.
Biking from the gate 11:45pm Saturday night
Biking from the gate 11:45pm Saturday night
Still snowy farther up the road
Still snowy farther up the road
This is what a snowmobile turns into if you ignore the engine overheating light!
This is what a snowmobile turns into if you ignore the engine overheating light!
This time most of the trail and my planned bushwhack route looked snow free, meeting my threshold of more than half the trip being booting. Thus I planned to bring snowshoes instead of skis. I planned to take the trail up buck creek, then bushwhack up the east ridge of Cleator to the Buck-Berge col, then tag Buck, Berge, and Berge North. If I had extra time I’d go tag some other peaks around high pass. The weather looked kind of marginal. Lots of fresh snow and rain was predicted Saturday, but there was a potential window between about midnight and noon Sunday between storms. Saturday evening I drove to the gate and parked at a pullout. There was another forester parked there with Wisonsin plates. I later learned it was a group of three climbers attempting Fortress Mountain (and unfortunately they didn’t know about the gate and ended up walking the road in and out!) I took a nap for a few hours then was up and biking shortly before midnight. The pavement ended at the gate and the gravel afterwards was mostly dry. I saw quite a few snowmobile tracks in the dirt. I think they generally gate the road in early May once the snow melts out to there, but until then it’s a popular snowmobile route. I’ve snowmobiled up the road to climb Maude and Seven Fingered Jack in January. After they gate the road the people who live at Trinity have a key and will drive in part way and snowmobile the rest of the way to get to their property. After a few miles I stumbled upon a scary sight. It was a jumbled mess of springs and metal parts wrapped in orange flagging. I figured out it was the charred remains of an incinerated snowmobile! I think that’s the result if you ignore the engine overheating light and keep riding for a long time. This is one possible consequence of riding too far on gravel without snow to cool the engine (though I’m not sure of the story behind this incident). Before the Phelps Creek turnoff I encountered only a few small patches of snow that will melt pretty soon. But then in the last half mile I came to a long and deep patch of snow that I had to dismount for. There was one set of truck tracks going through, likely from the people who live at Trinity. It was deep enough my forester would definitely not have made it, and it will likely take a while longer to melt out. I suspect this is the main reason the road is still gated. By 1:30am I reached the Trinity trailhead, and was unsurprisingly the only one there. I’d been there back in September 2020 and it was overflowing with cars. But I’d also driven there at the end of October 2020 and been the only one there. That was probably about the last driveable day to the trailhead, since I’d driven through 6inches of snow and had to use chains. I suspect the trailhead will start getting busy again in late June when they open the road.
Crossing the Chiwawa River at 3am
Crossing the Chiwawa River at 3am
First views up to Buck-Berge col
First views up to Buck-Berge col
Buck starting to clear out. Wild side ice route might still be climbable
Buck starting to clear out. Wild side ice route might still be climbable
I locked up the bike in the trees and started hiking. The trail had patchy snow pretty soon, but it was firm enough I continued hiking in trail runners. It was mostly in good shape, but after I turned off the Chiwawa River trail onto the Buck Creek trail the blowdowns got really bad. It was almost faster to just bushwhack next to the trail in many instances. That will take quite a while to clear out I bet. At 3am I reached the Chiwawa River crossing and almost bailed. The river was roaring at about waist height and the bridge was destroyed. Back in October I remember the bridge was smashed but still usable, so the winter must have further damaged it. All that is remaining now is one log angling down into the river that just barely spans it. I paused for a while but eventually went for it. I carefully shimmied down the log au cheval across the raging rive, then scrambled off on the other side. I hoped it would look less intimidating when I returned, maybe in daylight.
Traversing through cliff bands to the col
Traversing through cliff bands to the col
Some delightful alder thrashing
Some delightful alder thrashing
The view back down the valley
The view back down the valley
I continued crawling under, over, and around all the blow downs until I reached continuous and deep snow at 4,200ft. It was around 4am and I could finally turn off my headlamp. I hung my trail runners in a tree, switched to boots and gaiters, and left the trail heading for the east ridge of Cleator. I first needed to cross Buck Creek, though. Buck Creek was roaring just like Chiwawa, and I spent quite a while bushwhacking up stream, but eventually I found a log to cross. After that the forest was generally open, with snow covering the bushes on the north and east aspects. I followed the broad ridge, then crossed to the south side around 5000ft. This is the route Eric E and Fred used to access High Pass. Instead of going up to High Pass, though, I traversed at 5200ft. I thrashed through a slide alder thicket, then crossed a snowy gully and regained trees. I managed to find a snowy route through cliff bands and under waterfalls to gain more gentle slopes above 5,600ft. I’m not sure how well this route would go without snow cover, and I haven’t read of anyone else taking this route, but it worked for me.
The view across to Maude and Seven Fingered Jack, just starting to clear out before the next storm
The view across to Maude and Seven Fingered Jack, just starting to clear out before the next storm
Above 5800ft I encountered about 8 inches of fresh powder on top of the already deep snow, and it felt kind of like winter. I kicked steps up the slopes and eventually popped out on the larch-covered ridge at 6800ft. The larches were just starting to get leaves, though they were covered in fresh snow from Saturday. I dropped down the ridge to the east, crossed a small stream, then started up Buck around 7am.
Buck Mountain
Buck Mountain
The final scramble up Buck
The final scramble up Buck
Topping out on the summit ridge
Topping out on the summit ridge
I’d previously climbed Buck in 2018, so was familiar with this route. But this time I decided to try a slightly more direct variation. I front pointed directly up steep snow slopes to just below the West summit. Then I delicately climbed up mixed ice and rock until the terrain leveled out to a broad snow slope. A whiteout set in then, but I crossed the snow slope and was able to find my way up another steep snow gully to the traditional summit (the one south of point 8528).
View from the summit
View from the summit
Amazingly, the summit was just above the clouds making for an amazing undercast. I could see Glacier Peak to the west poking out like an island, and Maude and Seven Fingered Jack poking out to the east. There was a small break in clouds to the east so I could peer down and see King Lake and Trinity. There was also a gap in the clouds between me and point 8528, so I quickly pullout out my sight level. I measured a 2.5 degree declination down to point 8528. This meant the traditional summit, (location 48.09169649003325, -120.91168320981897 the one south of point 8528), is indeed the true highpoint. The one labeled on peakbagger and most maps, pt 8528, is just a northern sub summit. I later measured on the topo map a 740ft horizontal distance between the points, so, doing a bit of trigonometry, this means the true summit is 32ft taller than point 8528. I suspect point 8528 was surveyed because it is on the north point on the edge of the summit massif and may have been a good point to sight other locations. So this means, based on my measurement, the true summit of Buck Mountain has an elevation 8,560ft.
Looking towards the shorter northern summit
Looking towards the shorter northern summit
Glacier Peak above the clouds
Glacier Peak above the clouds
The view opening briefly below me looking towards Glacier Peak
The view opening briefly below me looking towards Glacier Peak
I spent longer than usual on this summit, since I figured it might end up being my only view of the trip. But eventually I scrambled and downclimbed the icy rock and steep snow. Back below the clouds I was stuck in a thick whiteout. I followed my tracks to the edge of the basin, then took a slightly less steep route down to avoid downclimbing the mixed terrain. I soon dropped back below the clouds into the larch basin at 6800ft and took a break. The summits were passing in and out of the clouds, and I hoped by the time I got up to Berge I would have enough of a view to take some good measurements. I ate a snack, then continued postholing up towards Berge. I was carrying snowshoes, but the terrain was just steep enough that it made sense to continue postholing in crampons. I followed the broad ridge west then north, making a beeline for point 7948, the north summit of Berge.
Heading towards Berge (in the clouds)
Heading towards Berge (in the clouds)
Looking down the 4th class summit block of the north (true) summit
Looking down the 4th class summit block of the north (true) summit
Looking towards the south false summit
Looking towards the south false summit
I made it up to the summit pyramid, then ditched my pack and poles and continued up with ice ax, crampons, and sight level. The pyramid was 4th class rock covered in ice and snow, and was a bit spicy climbing in crampons. I took my time, and soon made it up to the top. I don’t think this one gets climbed too often, probably because it has been thought to be a shorter sub summit of Berge. Luckily the clouds cleared and I had a good view over to the southern summit. I took out my sight level and measured a 2 degree declination down to the south summit. This meant then northern summit, surveyed point 7948, is actually the true summit of Mt Berge. I later measured on a topo map that the horizontal distance between the peaks is 940ft. This works out to the northern summit being 34ft taller than the southern summit. So the southern summit is 7914ft and the northern summit is 7948ft. I carefully downclimbed the 4th class bit, then front point downclimbed steep icy snow back to my pack. I loaded back up and headed over to the south summit to verify my measurement (and log another green dot on peakbagger). I traversed the snow, then gained the col between the peaks. From there I followed the ridge crest up third class rock and snow to the southern summit. Luckily there was still a break in the clouds and I had a clear view of the northern summit.
On the southern false summit
On the southern false summit
Looking towards Napeequa and Ten Peaks as weather comes in
Looking towards Napeequa and Ten Peaks as weather comes in
At High Pass, looking towards my exit col right of Cleator
At High Pass, looking towards my exit col right of Cleator
I took out my sight level and measured a 2 degree inclination up to the northern summit. This exactly matched my angular measurement from before, as it should. The weather was starting to deteriorate and I debated dropping straight down back to the Buck-Berge col to return the way I’d come. But I still held out hope that a weather break would come and I could tag some more bonus peaks around High Pass. So I scrambled down the 3rd class south ridge to the col below. Then I turned right and plunge stepped down the snow slope. I followed the standard route back to High Pass, that I had scrambled a few years earlier in the summer. Though now everything was covered in snow and wintery, and I had to face in down climb one steep icy bit. I made it to High Pass at 1pm and stopped to eat a snack. By then it started snowing kind of hard and the summits got completely engulfed in clouds. The snow storm was supposed to come in mid afternoon based on most models, but it seemed it was coming in a bit earlier than expected. I had hoped to go tag Napeequa before the storm, but estimated it adding about 3 hour round trip with my post holing speed from that morning. From pictures and reports I’d read the last 100ft of Napeequa are not trivial scrambling, so would probably require being able to see to navigate. If it were as bad a whiteout as when I had descended Buck that morning, that would likely be quite difficult. Given that the storm was predicted to intensify over the afternoon and evening I decided to bail and head back below treeline.
Dropping down the Cleator-Berge col
Dropping down the Cleator-Berge col
Looking back up to the col
Looking back up to the col
Looking back at Buck-Berge col socked in the snowstorm
Looking back at Buck-Berge col socked in the snowstorm
I was kind of enjoying the snowstorm, though, after thinking back to the 85F degree days in Seattle earlier in the week. So I hung out on a rock outcrop for another 30 minutes taking in the wind, cold, and snow as the summits got deeper in the clouds. Eventually I started my way back down. I postholed over to the Cleator-Berge col, then descended the other side. I knew this route would work based on reports from Fred and Eric E on nwhikers. Shaded relief maps also showed it to avoid cliff bands. I really wished I’d brought skis now for this descent, since the broad gentle slopes would have been very fun. I plunge stepped down the slopes as the fresh snow got softer and softer. As I descended the snow falling from the sky got less intense, and I think it was evaporating as it dropped. This time I crossed above the slide alder and made it back to the woods on the east ridge of Cleator, soon meeting back up with my ascent path.
Typical trail conditions up Buck Creek
Typical trail conditions up Buck Creek
Chiwawa River Crossing. Not as bad in the daylight
Chiwawa River Crossing. Not as bad in the daylight
Biking out
Biking out
I hiked back down the ridge, crossed Buck Creek at the good log crossing, and soon made it back to my stashed shoes. I took another break to soak in the nice cold breeze, again thinking back to the miserable heat the previous week. All the summits were thoroughly socked in now, and I was happy to be below treeline. I hiked back in trail runners, climbing under and around all the blowdowns, which were just as difficult in the daylight as they had been before dawn. I shimmied back up the log across the Chiwawa River, and eventually made it back to the trailhead by 5:45pm. I soon packed up and was biking out. This time there were some fresh ATV and truck tracks through the big snow bank, probably from the people living at Trinity. It rained off and on during my bike ride out, and in the last mile I caught up to the group of three climbers from Wisconsin walking out. They had tried to get up Fortress but said they ran out of time, unfortunately. By 7:30pm I was back at the car, packed up, and driving home, making for a 18.5 hr day. Link to more pictures

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neek
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PostMon Jun 07, 2021 7:18 pm 
Eric Gilbertson wrote:
Buck Mtn true summit is south summit
Guess I'll have to go back.
Eric Gilbertson wrote:
Mt Berge true summit is northeast summit
Crap. Randomly ran into Jake a couple years ago between those two peaks.

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geyer
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PostMon Jun 07, 2021 9:18 pm 
What's the matter Eric? The total station was too heavy to bike with? lol.gif Just kidding. I did some surveying back in college - not my favorite activity - but definitely made more interesting in the mountains. Love the analysis here!

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puzzlr
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PostMon Jun 07, 2021 10:52 pm 
But .... the north summit of Buck is so much more fun!
Buck's overhanging N summit - a vertigo-inducing gulf of empty space right over the edge. Hope an earthquake doesn't hit!
Buck's overhanging N summit - a vertigo-inducing gulf of empty space right over the edge. Hope an earthquake doesn't hit!
I'm awestruck at your endurance. I was tired reading along after the bushwhack and snow slogging to High Pass. Then after Buck and Berge wanderings you were looking for more peaks to bag! I enjoyed the math and measuring having spent a career doing that in another venue, but in the mountains I don't care. It's fun to get there (wherever) and then get back safely.

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Gimpilator
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PostTue Jun 08, 2021 6:32 am 
Eric, this is really great. Thank you for doing the dirty work! And you did it in less than optimal conditions. I've wondered about these specific summits for many years. Now, when I go, there's no guess work. Thanks for saving me that trouble.

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Alden Ryno
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PostTue Jun 08, 2021 10:29 am 
The bridge across the Chiwawa River is MUCH reduced since this past year. As you noted, it was kind of there before, just...unlevel. Awesome report and an intriguing reason for going aside from merely bagging a peak. Good news for me! Although, here's a question that I've pondered, and have heard both sides. I'd love to hear the thoughts of others. If a Bulger summit were found to be shorter than a suspected subsummit of the same peak/mountain, then would future would-be finishers of the list have to go to the new summit to log that peak for the list OR, because it's a historic list, would the traditionally recognized summit be the requirement to log it for the Bulger List? The true T100(P400) list, I believe, is technically dynamic; I think of the inclusion of Ballard while the Bulger List still omits it (that may be an apples to oranges comparison for subsummits vs entire mountains though). There may not be resolution and/or perhaps the original Bulger party would have final say.

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Eric Gilbertson
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PostTue Jun 08, 2021 12:58 pm 
Quote:
What's the matter Eric? The total station was too heavy to bike with?
Do they make portable versions of the more accurate survey equipment? Sounds like you know more about it than I do. Other than the little sight level I used on this trip I've only used a rented Trimble Geo 7x unit for surveying country highpoints. It's actually pretty small (about 8"x3"x6" and maybe two pounds), but kind of expensive. It makes sense when there are multiple highpoint candidates but they are not visible from each other, so a sight level won't be much use.
Quote:
But .... the north summit of Buck is so much more fun!
Wow that's a cool picture! I kind of wish I'd gone over to tag the north summit now.
Quote:
If a Bulger summit were found to be shorter than a suspected subsummit of the same peak/mountain, then would future would-be finishers of the list have to go to the new summit to log that peak for the list OR, because it's a historic list, would the traditionally recognized summit be the requirement to log it for the Bulger List?
I think there is sort of a precedent for this situation for Raven Ridge. My understanding is that Raven Ridge - Libby Peak (peak on west end of ridge) used to be considered the true summit, but it is now known the peak on the east end of the ridge is the true summit after Don Duncan used a surveyors level up there in 2000. A few years ago Jake R and I went up to go for the FWA of Raven Ridge and double checked with John Roper which peak would count as climbing the Bulger (we didn't want to do both), and he confirmed the true (eastern) summit counted. I assume the original Bulger party would have final say, though. I'm not aware of any other Bulgers in this situation, but happy to go up and survey them if needed.

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Mesahchie Mark
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PostTue Jun 08, 2021 2:28 pm 
Eric, I usually enjoy your TRs - not so sure about this one, as I may have to go back now! clown.gif Your assessment is in line with Klenke's GPS observations Interestingly, the bump in elevation doesn't change Buck's position on the Bulger or top 100 lists

Cheers, Mesahchie Mark
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geyer
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PostTue Jun 08, 2021 5:27 pm 
Eric Gilbertson wrote:
Do they make portable versions of the more accurate survey equipment? Sounds like you know more about it than I do. Other than the little sight level I used on this trip I've only used a rented Trimble Geo 7x unit for surveying country highpoints. It's actually pretty small (about 8"x3"x6" and maybe two pounds), but kind of expensive. It makes sense when there are multiple highpoint candidates but they are not visible from each other, so a sight level won't be much use.
Nah i was kidding and probably know less than you since it was so long ago. The modern surveying equipment is either pretty heavy or expensive. It would be cool to bring one of those Trimble 3D scanners out somewhere and render everything in extreme detail I had to go back to my TR to make sure I got the right summit and it looks like I got it right. To be honest, I don't think I ever even realized I hadn't gone where the map shows the high point. Perks of doing a trip without beta I guess lol.gif Not too surprising given how far off they are with the surveying near King Lake

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ozzy
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PostWed Jun 09, 2021 5:33 am 
You're truly a beast!! dizzy.gif Another great trip as usual. I'm just hoping you don't find a discrepancy on a peak I've already climbed! lol.gif Cheers dood!

“I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole shithouse goes up in flames”-Mr Mojo Risin
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Eric Gilbertson
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PostWed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 pm 
Summit locations and elevations are now correct on peakbagger. Thanks Greg!

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Brushbuffalo
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PostThu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 am 
Eric, I thoroughly enjoy your engineering mind and math-skill approach to problem solving on this trip. And I really connect to this comment:
Eric Gilbertson wrote:
So I hung out on a rock outcrop for another 30 minutes taking in the wind, cold, and snow as the summits got deeper in the clouds
99% of us would be skiddadling right outta there in the gathering storm! You linger to savor it.

Passing rocks and trees like they were standing still
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