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Brian R
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Brian R
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 Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:04 pm |
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Kim Brown
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Why?
It seems to be; same staff, at least Dickerson is.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Brian R
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Brian R
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:10 pm |
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Re "Why." Just click the Aspire link above, read. If you're ok with it, we're not on the same page.
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philfort
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Joined: 02 Sep 2003
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philfort
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:11 pm |
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| Brian R wrote: | | I'm wondering why they would want this on Heliotrope Ridge as opposed to the Easton/Deming/Squak Glacier Complex--non-wilderness where snow machines are already allowed right up to the base of the Roman Wall.
In any event, NO. This is almost as bad as letting commercial trail-runners swarm The Wonderland and suck up camping permits. Enough of this pay-to-play nonsense. |
Not as bad though, because nothing is being taken by someone else.
That area is already a popular snowmobile destination, it's hard to see how having 8 additional users would really impact much. If anything, a continuous winter presence could serve to dissuade illegal intrusions of snowmobiles into the adjacent wilderness areas.
I found this website, which has a lot more info:
http://aspiremountainhuts.com/
To sum up:
- the hut would be at the Heliotrope Ridge trailhead (worries about extra trash seem a bit silly, given this info)
- doesn't sound like guided services are required, though there is some extra cost for first time users revolving around "hut orientation"
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Brian R
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Brian R
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:20 pm |
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https://bepeculiar.com/amh/?page_id=68
Ugh, yes, it is the same company. Willing and able to rent us the land we already own. And by looking at their website, they seem to think it's a done deal. I don't recall this going out for public comments or input. This is out of control.
edit: I'm sure glad their hut design includes "mosquito netting" for those awful winter swarms! No matter--it comes down in the spring. Right?? 
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Kim Brown
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| Brian R wrote: | | Re "Why." Just click the Aspire link above, read. If you're ok with it, we're not on the same page.
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Glanced at it. The rent is for the hut and furnishings, not the land, and it's not mandatory. You don't have to use it. What problem should I be seeing?
If you have something to say, say it. It helps the conversation!
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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Kim Brown
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The name of the 3 orgs here:
| Kim Brown wrote: | | There's nothing about it on the MBS website; perhaps they're just meeting with the 3 guide orgs (Aspire Mtn Huts, Baker Mtn Guides, Roundhouse Touring).
Aspire Mtn Huts website has some detail, including that the proposed site of the inaugural hut is at the Heliotrope trail head. I don't see anything about it on Baker Mtn Guides' or Roundhouse Touring website. Roundhouse is from Canada.
Not sure it's a terrible idea, but I haven't thought it through.
The MTTA huts at Mt Rainier area are nice and provide tons of good recreation. |
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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philfort
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philfort
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:46 pm |
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| Brian R wrote: | | edit: I'm sure glad their hut design includes "mosquito netting" for those awful winter swarms! No matter--it comes down in the spring. Right?? |
As it says on the website, it's one from this company:
https://weatherport.com/
Presumably the graphic on their website that includes some mosquito netting is not hinting at a secret plan to expand into mosquito season. Did you really think that? Grasping at straws much?
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kiliki
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kiliki
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:54 pm |
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| Quote: | | The MTTA huts at Mt Rainier area are nice and provide tons of good recreation. |
The Mt Tahoma huts are free to use during the day, and only $15/night.
So here's the big difference. This is essentially a luxury use for their clients. I mean, any of us can reserve, but it's $1500/$1800 + add ons + taxes. This is from their website:
https://bepeculiar.com/amh/?page_id=68
RATES
The Heliotrope hut sleeps up to 8 Adults. Bookings and rates are for exclusive access to the full hut. During the Full Winter Season bookings require a 3 night minimum stay.
Weekend/Holidays: $600 Pr Night
Weekdays: $500 Per Night
ADD ONS:
Snowmobile Tow: Human Transport: $50 per person (1 Way)
Each of our snowmobiles can tow, via rope and handles, up to 4 skiers. The snow level and road quality is variable throughout the year. From the highway to the hut it is 8 miles and climbs 3,350’.
Snowmobile Mule: Gear Transport: $100 pr load (1 Way)
A load is defined by the amount of gear we can fit into our 64" X 32" X 15" gear sled. (approximately 300 pounds or 4 100 Liter Duffel Bags)
Chef for Hire: $200 per Night + Food Costs
**
If this is in snowmobile country anyway I don't think this is the sword I'm going to choose to fall on, but I get the larger philosophical question of, do we want to allow these type of developments, which most people can't afford, in the backcountry of our public lands. Certainly there are many concessioners on public lands, certainly many charge $$$$ for what they are providing. But this does seem to be the trend--companies are increasingly offering expensive lodging/services to people in the backcountry of our NPs/NFs. Again I personally am less worried about this in non-NP areas/areas where there is motorized recreation around. (Though snowmobiles and skiers aren't a great mix. Who wants to pay all that money to ski over snowmobile tracks? So maybe this isn't a popular area for that).
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kiliki
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kiliki
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:07 pm |
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It would be better if they had to provide some kind of public benefit. The way any member of the public can go into the (very expensive) Ahwahnee Hotel in Yosemite and kick it on the couches in the big beautiful public area for as long as they want.
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Kim Brown
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| kiliki wrote: | | But this does seem to be the trend--companies are increasingly offering expensive lodging/services to people in the backcountry of our NPs/NFs |
This is a good point.
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
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philfort
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philfort
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:14 pm |
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Yeah, the costs are pretty insane. About quadruple what one costs in BC, and on par with Scottish Lakes.
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Malachai Constant
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Mount Tahoma huts are entirely different that is essentially a coop with volunteers providing the work and materials. The cost is modest.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:59 pm |
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| kiliki wrote: | | Altasnob, where did you get the Google doc link? Did it come via the USFS or from the guide services? |
It was posted on Turns All Year's facebook page. Ya, it is not from USFS. It seems the guides are just hoping to convince USFS this is a good idea and at least have USFS's ear.
I've sampled a variety of the BC ski huts from ramshackle mice infested illegal huts, to luxury. Keith's hut in BC has no reservations and is donations appreciated, but otherwise free. It sleeps 14 comfortably. On busy weekends, you can expect 30 to 100 people sleeping in, or around the hut. Lots who come understand there is no room to sleep in the hut so come properly prepared to winter camp, but may still try to cook in the hut. The biggest problem with the crowds is poop.
The reservation huts, like Wendy Thompson across the highway from Keith's, are not as crowded because the reservation system caps users. But people without reservations still show up. Most come prepared to winter camp. But some show up without reservations and just figure they can cram themselves in.
Brian Wadington has no heat source and I heard this was because if they put in a wood stove, after the firewood supply is depleted for the year people would just go out and chop down the fragile high alpine timber that surrounds the hut. Keith's is wood stove heated and they heli in wood. They always run out of wood every Spring. Wendy Thompson is kerosene, which is gross (there is a soot bear above the heater black as night from the exhaust).
They had to add huts to the Spearhead traverse because the fecal situation was getting out of control. Better to build huts and concentrate the poop than spread it all out over the glaciers. It's as busy a Muir snowfield up there.
The huts around Baker sound cool, but the crowds will be crazy. To get a reservation spot will be more difficult than scoring core Enchantment permits. So none of us will probably get to enjoy any of them unless you splurge for the guide.
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Randito
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Randito
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Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:07 pm |
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My experience in British Columbia and Alberta ski huts has been excellent. My experience in Oregon huts in the Wallows has also been good.
Here in Washington I've used the MTTA huts and the Scottish lakes Cabins -- both have been nice.
One thing I've observed in BC ski huts is that there area around the ski huts get recoganized as off-limits to snowmobile and helicopter users. So I think hut systems have the potential to limit razzer/chopper activity in the area around the huts.
I do think the huts shouldn't be exclusively for use by guided clients -- I'll be interested to see what the USFS proposes as a reservation system that balances the needs of non-guided groups and guided groups.
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