Previous :: Next Topic |
Author |
Message |
HikerJohn Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 354 | TRs | Pics Location: Daydreaming |
|
Back to top |
|
|
puzzlr Mid Fork Rocks
Joined: 13 Feb 2007 Posts: 7220 | TRs | Pics Location: Stuck in the middle |
|
puzzlr
Mid Fork Rocks
|
Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:27 pm
|
|
|
Thanks for the link. Some questions are left unanswered. Will they continue the (paid) permit system to drive the roads on this land? Will they keep logging? For part of it that seems like a good use -- it's not so interesting for recreational values. But you can bet J.P. Morgan isn't doing this out of altruism. Maybe it's a conservation angle where they sell tree growth/planting credits to organizations or companies trying to meet their zero-carbon pledges. I'm not implying that's a bad thing, but can be complicated.
I assume that King County still owns the development rights to this land which they purchased some time ago when they couldn't come up with the money to buy it outright. I wish I had a link for that.
|
Back to top |
|
|
yukon222 Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Posts: 1893 | TRs | Pics
|
|
yukon222
Member
|
Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:59 pm
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thunderhead Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2015 Posts: 1519 | TRs | Pics
|
I hope the permit access system for biking stays in place.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6719 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
|
Schroder
Member
|
Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:36 pm
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dick B Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 Posts: 345 | TRs | Pics Location: Redmond, Or |
|
Dick B
Member
|
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:50 pm
|
|
|
Back in the day when I was a practicing forester, one method of buying and managing timber land by some large lumber companies was to "cut out and get out". Buyers wanted to recover their investment as quickly as possible, and move on.
I worked in Oregon, which had several Weyerhauser tree farms, and associated mills. One farm was in Coos Bay. It butted up against the state forest I helped manage. They had the largest mill in the area. It is gone, and is now a casino. As far as I know the company still owns the tree farm, but I believe all the merchantable timber has been harvested. Same thing happened on their tree farm outside of Klamath Falls. That mill is gone also. There may be another down in the Eugene area.
All the green stuff; carbon credits, off sets and other environmental schemes are new to me. Managing it for carbon credits may be the reason for the purchase. My bet would be; if there is any merchantable timber it will be quickly logged to take advantage of the rising price of timber products.
Good look on your future road access. I assume it allows you to get to different trail heads.
|
Back to top |
|
|
jinx'sboy Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2008 Posts: 929 | TRs | Pics Location: on a great circle route |
The high retail lumber prices may persist for a while yet, but the classic ‘short squeeze’ in lumber is already about done.
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/commodities/lbs
Prices took off this spring from the typical $500/1000 bd ft of the last few years. They climbed to $1600/1000 in early May - and are now trading below $750/1000. No - retail prices dont exactly mirror the futures prices - but they aren’t far off.
One analyst I was reading figures that by Labor Day lumber will be about where it was a few months ago.
|
Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:36 pm
|
|
|
My sources have said that log prices and timber prices did not rise as much as the lumber prices. Cedar was an exception, but it is usually high anyway.
Just read where LUMBER prices are tumbling.
Timber is the standing tree--AKA stumpage, logs are those things on a truck, and lumber is a finished product ready to build something with. The terms sometimes get mixed up.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lindsay Member
Joined: 18 May 2007 Posts: 51 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
|
Lindsay
Member
|
Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:13 pm
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
rossb Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 1679 | TRs | Pics
|
|
rossb
Member
|
Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:33 pm
|
|
|
treeswarper wrote: | My sources have said that log prices and timber prices did not rise as much as the lumber prices. |
That makes sense to me. With the pandemic, the lumber mills expected an economic downturn, so they cut processing. But demand actually went up, as a lot of stimulus money went into home remodels (and no one was spending money on going out, traveling, etc.). Now the mills have opened up again, and demand is shifting back.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2419 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
|
Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
|
Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:34 pm
|
|
|
Dick B wrote: | ... one method of buying and managing timber land by some large lumber companies was to "cut out and get out". Buyers wanted to recover their investment as quickly as possible, and move on ... I worked in Oregon, which had several Weyerhauser tree farms, and associated mills. One farm was in Coos Bay. It butted up against the state forest I helped manage. They had the largest mill in the area. It is gone, and is now a casino. |
I get real skeptical about positive environmental outcomes when I hear about investment companies and their involvement with forestry; even more so when one vampire squid swallows another. From the article Hiker John cited: Quote: | "Carbon sequestration in forests worldwide will play an important role in carbon markets, and J.P. Morgan Asset Management expects to become an active participant in carbon offset markets as they develop. |
That sounds a lot like the forestry equivalent of the vaunted "cap and trade" deals which, I believe, accomplished a lot less than the proponents claimed.
It's been a few decades but my past knowledge of such involved the acquisitions on the Mt. Loop Highway by the Timber Resources investment arm of The John Hancock Life Insurance Company. Some of the forestry-areas they acquired got rezoned and JH sold the cut land to Associated Sand & Gravel of Everett, itself owned by some Australian natural resources conglomerate. The quarry in question destroyed some kettle wetlands, and was/is pretty close to the Stilly. Of course JH's PR group was all rah-rah about their set-aside to the county for Robe Canyon Park, which was a pretty miniscule part of their surrounding holdings.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
|
Back to top |
|
|
wade63 guitarman
Joined: 21 Jun 2018 Posts: 126 | TRs | Pics Location: Orcas Island |
|
wade63
guitarman
|
Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:08 pm
|
|
|
For sure is it's all about the dollar. If a corporation can tell itself it's doing good makes everyone feel better. Who doesn't want to feel good? Truth is JPM is looking to profit, it's what they do. Public lands are the only thing you and I may have a say in.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Pyrites Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Posts: 1884 | TRs | Pics Location: South Sound |
|
Pyrites
Member
|
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:39 pm
|
|
|
treeswarper wrote: | My sources have said that log prices and timber prices did not rise as much as the lumber prices. Cedar was an exception, but it is usually high anyway.
Just read where LUMBER prices are tumbling.
Timber is the standing tree--AKA stumpage, logs are those things on a truck, and lumber is a finished product ready to build something with. The terms sometimes get mixed up. |
I’ve always called those old 8” x 26” clear grain Doug fir beams you see in old mill construction, timber , or as the building codes call it Heavy Timber.
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
|
Back to top |
|
|
treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
|
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
|
Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:24 am
|
|
|
Pyrites wrote: | treeswarper wrote: | My sources have said that log prices and timber prices did not rise as much as the lumber prices. Cedar was an exception, but it is usually high anyway.
Just read where LUMBER prices are tumbling.
Timber is the standing tree--AKA stumpage, logs are those things on a truck, and lumber is a finished product ready to build something with. The terms sometimes get mixed up. |
I’ve always called those old 8” x 26” clear grain Doug fir beams you see in old mill construction, timber , or as the building codes call it Heavy Timber. |
Ah yes. And we have timber framed houses also.
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kim Brown Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 6899 | TRs | Pics
|
Lindsay wrote: | informative post. |
Lindsay, thanks for the great details!
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
"..living on the east side of the Sierra world be ideal - except for harsher winters and the chance of apocalyptic fires burning the whole area."
Bosterson, NWHiker's marketing expert
|
Back to top |
|
|
|