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altasnob
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 7:25 am 
Forest Service contemplating temporary (winter only) huts at North Twin, Watson/Anderson Lakes, and Heliotrope:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdnaQ2yLEkJ6WV3k3Ksa0DTEPQhYfpa01EVoGrwH7yWsRraPg/viewform?fbclid=IwAR3aiazZw7MJ2vf5ClnBdbIuzMeM_TxW5kLGnCx66pvfNSLoXUxZYXFy_aQ

Details are sparse, but appears commercial guides are pushing for temporary huts, with the idea that you must be commercially guided to use them, which is lame if true. I do like the idea of structures that can be removed after each winter as a way to mitigate impact. I think this would even be allowed in wilderness areas, so long as you haul up the materials by human or horse (I believe all of the proposed locations are in wilderness areas).

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fourteen410
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 8:40 am 
I wonder if that means the Anderson/Watson road would be plowed to the end.

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Slugman
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 8:57 am 
None of them can be in the wilderness as the video makes clear. It says snowmobiles will be used to transport people in and out.

Since the huts will be installed “in the fall” no plowing of the road would be needed. Also not needed for snowmobile access in winter.

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“The jerking motion of a knee does not reflect the operation of a mind”  Slugman, January 24th 2020
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Schroder
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 1:09 pm 
I'm absolutely opposed to this. Keep the hordes with the guide services away from these pristine areas.

NWtrax, Mountainpines, Jaberwock
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philfort
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 1:15 pm 
Washington desperately needs something like this.

I don't see anywhere that a guide would be required to use these huts. The video implies it would be an option.

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Schroder
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 1:21 pm 
philfort wrote:
Washington desperately needs something like this.

Western Washington needs nothing like this.

How can they not be in the Wilderness boundaries if it's on Heliotrope Ridge?

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MangyMarmot
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 2:30 pm 
This sounds like a disaster. HELL NO!

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philfort
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PostThu Jun 17, 2021 2:37 pm 
Schroder wrote:
How can they not be in the Wilderness boundaries if it's on Heliotrope Ridge?

It's obviously not actually *on* Heliotrope Ridge.

The WA Cascades have practically infinite pristine nearly-inaccessible winter ski destinations, and very few hut options. Huge contrast to British Columbia, which has lots of great ski huts.

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kiliki
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 7:59 am 
Altasnob, where did you get the Google doc link? Did it come via the USFS or from the guide services?

It's clear from the video that yes, these will only be for these companies' clients, and that they will use snowmobiles to get supplies (and maybe people?) to and from the huts. Are these areas where snowmobiling is already allowed/common?

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Malachai Constant
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 10:48 am 
An abomination in my opinion just so some guide service can make a few $$$.

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daffish
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 11:06 am 
Not in favor for this type of use. This is just another type of (recreational) resource extraction meant to financially favor a select few.

This is what I sent them:


Forest land and humans are not static with each other but two extremes in a constant struggle. The more science learns about the ecosystems, the more we realize how sensitive the forest ecosystem is to human intrusion. We humans are no longer in balance with nature and that is why we need to recognize the importance of maintaining the ecosystem on its own terms. While presumably not in actual Wilderness, backcountry huts promote increased human incursion. Would the entrepreneurs be required to post a kind of insurance bond to cover the costs of clean-up mitigation from the inevitable accidents of this kind of use? Increased trash, sewage mishaps, tree and plant damage, fuel spillage, and broken (abandoned) transport vehicles are just some of the more obvious concerns of this type that will degrade the area. Increased use has long term detriments that are never fully realized at their inception.

Maybe we need to realize that the most indisputable beauty may be the one that people cannot ever touch.

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rbuzby
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 11:56 am 
One of the ridges they land skiers on for helicopter skiing has trash and orange flagging left over from winter visits. Or did one time I was up there (just east of the NCNP boundary). Winter use sounds like no impact, but if they throw trash around, there is an impact.  If people riding in helicopters cant even pack out their own trash, then......

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kiliki
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 12:30 pm 
rbuzby wrote:
One of the ridges they land skiers on for helicopter skiing has trash and orange flagging left over from winter visits. Or did one time I was up there (just east of the NCNP boundary). Winter use sounds like no impact, but if they throw trash around, there is an impact.  If people riding in helicopters cant even pack out their own trash, then......

In the North Cascades Heli-Skiing area, right? Did you report that to the OWNF? They are the company that cut old growth trees for landing spots, then lied about it, then blamed the pilot who supposedly didn't know any better because he was from Alaska (what?), then finally threw a temper tantrum and was encouraging people to write their congressional representatives and the OWNF when it looked like their permit might be in danger due to their epically sh**ty conduct.

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Brian R
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Brian R
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 12:46 pm 
I'm wondering why they would want this on Heliotrope Ridge as opposed to the Easton/Deming/Squak Glacier Complex--non-wilderness where snow machines are already allowed right up to the base of the Roman Wall.

In any event, NO. This is almost as bad as letting commercial trail-runners swarm The Wonderland and suck up camping permits. Enough of this pay-to-play nonsense.

uww
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Kim Brown
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PostFri Jun 18, 2021 12:59 pm 
There's nothing about it on the MBS website; perhaps they're just meeting with the 3 guide orgs (Aspire Mtn Huts, Baker Mtn Guides, Roundhouse Touring). Aside from the guy saying their working with Mt. Baker National Forest (hello, it merged with Snoquamie National Forest in 1970-flippin-4 before these guys were born, but it's just a mistake; I can still whine about it though)

Aspire Mtn Huts website has some detail, including that the proposed site of the inaugural hut is at the Heliotrope trail head.  I don't see anything about it on Baker Mtn Guides' or Roundhouse Touring website.  Roundhouse is from Canada.

Not sure it's a terrible idea, but I haven't thought it through.

The MTTA huts at Mt Rainier area are nice and provide tons of good recreation.

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