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Sculpin
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PostMon Sep 13, 2021 7:50 am 
I think I am trending towards becoming the founding member of the Zeke Lunder fan club. biggrin.gif This link has a great pair of videos, one showing "good fire" and the other showing an overview of the various degrees of burn severity in the Dixie Fire: https://the-lookout.org/2021/09/12/dixie-fire-effects-2-videos/ I feel like I know a lot about fire ecology but I am still learning.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir

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Pyrites
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PostTue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 am 
Fire killed trees in well thinned areas. I’d also like to know if units were burned post-thinning. It’s seems consistent across papers that thinning without burning is inadequate on extreme days. Prichard and others do also say that wind exposure matters, as does size of treated area.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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treeswarper
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PostMon Sep 20, 2021 3:12 pm 
Pyrites wrote:
Fire killed trees in well thinned areas. I’d also like to know if units were burned post-thinning. It’s seems consistent across papers that thinning without burning is inadequate on extreme days. Prichard and others do also say that wind exposure matters, as does size of treated area.
In that area the thinning slash would definitely have been treated after logging. Remember, that fire was making its own weather at times. I did not hear any mention ( did I miss it?) of the drought and extremely dry conditions, which also are a factor.

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treeswarper
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PostTue Sep 28, 2021 7:02 pm 
An article to read. Read This

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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moonspots
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PostThu Oct 07, 2021 8:07 am 
treeswarper wrote:
An article to read. Read This
Good article, and it makes a point that should be oh, so obvious. It seems to me anyway.

"Out, OUT you demons of Stupidity"! - St Dogbert, patron Saint of Technology
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altasnob
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PostTue Oct 12, 2021 8:00 am 
How about this recent study conducted by the Forest Service's own scientist that concluded (to no surprise) that the type of forest that can best handle fires is older forest where the spotted owl lives (i.e. the forests that haven't been logged or thinned): https://doi.org/10.21203/rs.3.rs-280175/v1 PDF here: https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_journals/2021/rmrs_2021_lesmeister_d001.pdf

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treeswarper
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PostTue Oct 12, 2021 11:08 am 
altasnob wrote:
How about this recent study conducted by the Forest Service's own scientist that concluded (to no surprise) that the type of forest that can best handle fires is older forest where the spotted owl lives (i.e. the forests that haven't been logged or thinned): https://doi.org/10.21203/rs.3.rs-280175/v1 PDF here: https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs_journals/2021/rmrs_2021_lesmeister_d001.pdf
Until there's a drought and an east wind. Soon there should be spotted owl habitat galore brought to you by "thinning and logging".

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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querulous
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PostFri Oct 15, 2021 5:40 pm 
West-side thinning to reduce fire severity has never made the slightest bit of sense in Oregon or Washington. Old-growth west-side forests have a lot of biomass. Another word for biomass is "fuel". Dry it out enough and you can have a big fire. I note also that unthinned douglas-fir of commercial age (say 60+ years) and older is pretty good at surviving fire. High stand density means moister and less windy conditions on the forest floor, less brush and ground vegetation to burn, and higher crown heights (to keep the fire on the ground, not in tree crowns). In those circumstances Douglas fir wll survive ground fire when thinner-barked species (e.g. western hemlock, red-cedar, sitka spruce) are often killed. You want to talk about east-side thinning to reduce fire severity, or wet-side thinning for other reasons (extracting commercial value, "releasing" individual trees, inducing a bigger shrub/forb layer), well that is another discussion. But fire prophylaxis west-side thinning is not sensible, nor grounded in fire and forest ecology.

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altasnob
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PostSat Oct 16, 2021 10:39 pm 
Good visual on what Cascade forests looked like before fire suppression.

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jinx'sboy
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PostSat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 pm 
I spoke a couple of years ago with a woman, a bit younger than I am. I know her long time Methow ranching family and I know she spent a couple years fighting fire for the FS. I think both of her Grandmothers were born in the Methow. We were discussing recent smoke and fire seasons, length of smokey times, etc. She said she remembered talking, years earlier when she was young, about historical fires with one of her Grandmothers, born in 1900. She had asked her Grandmother, “what were summers like when you were a young girl, in your teens, like around WW1?” Her Grandmother replied “It was smokey all summer, every summer”. Before the era of real organized firefighting - mostly from the addition of the manpower from the CCCs - it would indeed have been smokey most of the time.

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treeswarper
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PostSun Oct 17, 2021 7:39 am 
I don't recall Wenatchee being very smoky. We did wake up in the morning to see the hills had turned black. Grass fires were quick and over fast. This was not unusual. Now there are houses on those hills and they are big houses. Each trip I make downriver, I see new construction in places that I thought folks would never build on. This all makes for expensive "grass fires".

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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