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InFlight
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PostWed Nov 03, 2021 6:18 pm 
Actually I would also suggest going the heat pump route for a new install, rather than a new furnace. Indoors it’s just a blower unit, heat exchanger, and drain tube for the AC mode. The trick is locating the Outdoor Unit where the noise won’t be too loud, preferably away from bedrooms. The contractor should do a entire sizing estimate for your house. I would suggest that 4-5 tons would be a good size for most homes that would have enough capacity for extreme hot/cold days and wouldn’t need to run very long on most of our normal range of temperatures. There are a lot of manufacturers out there. The quality of the install is far more important than Lennox vs Bryant. The more efficient two stage units are more expensive, but will save money to operate. For older homes that only have two or three wire thermostats ( heat only or heat +fan) and non-accessible wiring. There is a neat product that is a smart thermostat that can control any combination of units. It gets power and multiplexes data over two wires. A unit installed near the wire end (furnace) converts out to lots of control wires for multi-stage fans, AC etc.

“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...” ― Henry David Thoreau
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Nov 03, 2021 6:24 pm 
A few years ago we replaced our electric furnace with a gas one I believe we uses UMC but that was because that was specified by PSE who paid for most of it including putting in a gas line from across the street. They did a good job but were expensive but did not bother us as we were not paying most of the bill. When a burner went out we hired them again and they did fine. Next service we hired an independent and he was much cheaper. Gas is currently expensive so we will use our efficient wood insert when it gets cold as we have lots of cord wood. As in most things ya pay your money and take your chances, so it goes.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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treeswarper
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treeswarper
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PostThu Nov 04, 2021 7:20 am 
JonnyQuest wrote:
Tom wrote:
Called Greenwood and they can't stop by for a service call until Monday.
Lucky you! Out hear in Sequim, the heating company most recommended to us can fit us in for a visit in December. And we've been on the waiting list for a few weeks.
Too bad they can't do what the plumber did here. I had a terribly clogged drain during a cold snap. The plumbers were triaging their calls and frozen pipes were overwhelming them. One plumber I called told me how to fix my drain and what I would need. I did it myself, and I now have the tools to do periodic maintenance on that drain.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Tom
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PostThu Nov 04, 2021 12:01 pm 
Greenwood called me yesterday and said they could come this morning. Nice guy showed up, apparently the only one doing service calls for Greenwood on the east side, and yes, furnace season is in full swing so they are super busy. Blower was creaking so much he would go with space heaters in the interim if it were him as implosion into heating area (while still an unlikely scenario) would not end well. eek.gif He said switches are faulting, told me to pull up ebay and check prices, but a waste of money for him to do it, better to get furnace replaced asap. Their estimator will be coming out Wednesday. I asked about heat pumps and he said they are super efficient, he would probably do it if I were planning to be in the house more than 10 years. I asked if he got a commission if I bought a replacement with them and he said yes, but small enough (sounded like 2%) that he was giving me straight story. Sounds like they only install Trane furnaces but if I go heat pump route the choice of furnace is less important as it will rarely run (mainly needed as backup for heat pump). He said heat pump is more of a continuous heat, so may be an adjustment vs. the heat of a furnace which is more instant when you turn the heat up, which some prefer.

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lookout bob
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PostThu Nov 04, 2021 2:51 pm 
Tom...I would definitely go the heat pump route. You would get cooling in the summer and heat when you need it. ( and after last summers heat, it seems we are warming up...)Heat pumps are WAY more efficient so you'd likely save money in the long run. ( as was pointed out, not the route you want if you're only gonna be in your home another short time...) I've got extra space heaters if you need some to see you through. Stay warm! cool.gif

"Altitude is its own reward" John Jerome ( from "On Mountains")

Tom
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treeswarper
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PostThu Nov 04, 2021 4:15 pm 
My next door neighbor got a heat pump installed. It's very quiet. It is a Coleman.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Backpacker Joe
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PostFri Nov 05, 2021 2:05 pm 
Last april i had a Mitsubishi hyper heat system installed. wow. its 100 percent efficient down to 0 degrees and 75 percent efficient down to -15. all other heat pumps stop working around 32-35 degrees. This technology is incredible. The feds wouldnt even allow it in the us for years because it had no competition. AND my electric bill has gone down because it is so efficient.

"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide." — Abraham Lincoln

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Tom
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PostFri Nov 05, 2021 2:22 pm 
The Greenwood tech that came out yesterday had really good things to say about Mitsubishi, sounded like it was ductless. Not sure if it makes sense for us. Got a quote for a heat pump system today from Bel Red Energy Solutions. I was expecting a high quote given their yelp reviews, but yowza, in the $30K vicinity. Some of that depends on whether they need to run new electric lines, and Trane CleanEffects filtration which we are considering for allergies. The quote reminded me of the roofing company that was 30% higher than everyone else. When they start off the sales presentation with, "all of our employees are drug tested" I figured the sticker shock was coming. Getting a couple more estimates next week. Salesperson said other companies might come in $5-10K less due to "not doing it right". I'm sure there's some of that, but scratching my head as to how you could really cut enough corners to quote $5-10K less on an install, or vice-versa. Their more expensive option was a Coleman heat pump, apparently slightly quieter with newer tech vs. the Bosch which was $4K cheaper.

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InFlight
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PostFri Nov 05, 2021 11:38 pm 
Ductless makes no sense when your already set with ducts and returns. The outdoor unit will need a pad and 240 V circuit with disconnect. The location of your existing furnace could make routing the line set easy or hard. Down draft or side draft units seem to have less options available. The size of the unit (tons) and Seer rating really impacts the cost. When comparing offers it is critical to look at these details. I have a Honeywell electrostatic air cleaner. It helps with air quality, but takes it takes a lot of time to clean regularly. Any type of electronic cleaner will take maintenance time. A disposable HEPA filter frame might be a less labor intensive option.

“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...” ― Henry David Thoreau
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contour5
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PostMon Nov 08, 2021 1:52 pm 
If you haven’t pulled the trigger yet you might consider Premier. Competent guys, solid company, Probably not cheap but They do good work.

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Tom
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PostWed Nov 10, 2021 7:57 pm 
The biggest challenge right now is finding someone that has units to install. Greenwood came out for a quote today and said Trane was backed out a couple months which is the only brand they install. Earlier this week I had Green City come out and quote. Very competitive bid, $15K versus $23 to 30k for the other two bids. Same sized units quoted (5 ton) for all. Actually 5 ton may be a tad oversized but Green City said since it's a variable system not as big of a deal and a smaller furnace would be a 1+ month wait. The Daikon Fit heat pump they quoted look quite good. From an installation perspective nothing jumped out that they are cutting corners. Factory certified and trained installers, copper pipes replaced and flushed with nitrogen, etc. and they can install next week so decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth. So far very good experience with Green City, fingers crossed.

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Tom
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PostTue Dec 07, 2021 1:55 pm 
All worked out well. Green City installed 5 days later. I would recommend them. The only thing I might do different is install the heat pump in another location, but not sure that would have been possible. It's installed where the AC unit used to be (side yard) and when the heat pump is running there's quite a breeze blowing out into the yard. Not sure how that would work with e.g. kids playing in the yard in the summer, maybe they would think it was fun. While soaking in the hot tub around the corner I can hear the fan blowing, it's not particularly loud, but nice thing is I can pull up the thermostat app on the tablet and switch to gas heat if I want absolute silence while soaking. The gas furnace is the garage comes on when the temperature outside dips into the mid to upper 30s and is much quieter than our prior furnace.

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JPH
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PostTue Dec 07, 2021 6:29 pm 
We're in the process of replacing our furnace. Going from oil to NG. Oil furnace is like 50 years old and is borderline non-functional so we decided to have NG installed instead of replacing oil. We are using MM Comfort via Costco. Not going to work if you're in a rush, but if you've got time on your side they're worth a look. Cost was way lower than Cardinal, who was our other bid. Actual work is going to happen in January, I guess that's when we'll really know how good they are!

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Hiker Mama
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PostSun Dec 12, 2021 11:31 pm 
Looks like you've got it taken care of. We are super happy with our switch to a heat pump almost 2 years ago. It's saved us a bunch of money from our old electric furnace, we have AC and filtered air for heat and smoke. I also like that the fan comes on to recirculate the air every hour. It helps keep the rooms at similar temperatures. It really helped with our mold and humidity issues.

My hiking w/ kids site: www.thehikermama.com
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treeswarper
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PostTue Dec 14, 2021 8:31 am 
I feel the need for a propane fireplace. After living in extremely rural areas where power outages in the winter, and sometimes summer, are normal, I am nervous about relying on electricity. Our PUD is great, but I am nervous. I've shopped a bit and both local places talked me out of it, saying "It would be very expensive". Gotta respect that honesty. My hesitation is more about locating a propane tank. There really isn't a good place, visuals wise that is convenient to filling up. Until then, in an emergency, I guess there's the Little Buddy dangerous heater. Congratulations on finding a good company to work with.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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