[snoqpass]

[snoqpass]

[kw]

My concern is less with uphill restrictions in general, which I understand are common and necessary, but rather with the strictness of these restrictions. I believe Alpental already prohibits uphill travel during operation hours and when avy control was being conducted, but banning uphill travel for the entire winter 24 hours a day seems like an overly-restrictive solution to the problem of idiots ignoring the existing restrictions. I'm not sure why they believe people stupid enough to skin up during avalanche control will now listen to these closures, or buy their $5 bureaucracy pass. I suppose part of my abrasiveness to this though is that the area they are closing extends far beyond the traditional confines of the ski area, they're ultimately just drawing a line through a forest quite far from where lift infrastructure ends.

[snoqpass]

[snoqpass]

[snoqpass]

[jaysway]

[jaysway]

Longer term, I have mixed feelings about whether the Alpental back bowls should remain the way they are, or eventually be incorporated into the rest of the ski area with new lift(s) and increased patrols/avalanche mitigation. I love the way the ski area treats the area currently, but all ski areas in Washington are bursting at the seams. Malachai, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you about skiing being a dying industry if we narrow our focus to Washington. To the contrary, I wouldn't be surprised if the ski areas here could increase prices by 25% across the board and see little drop in peak attendance. I'm torn between wanting expanded/new ski areas to help spread out crowds, and also wanting to preserve as much of the nature we have here as possible. If Alpental eventually does expand its lift infrastructure into the back bowls, that might be a good compromise of allowing more uphill capacity while not expanding current ski area boundaries or infringing on areas within ski area boundaries where people currently enjoy uphill travel (see Crystal).

[snoqpass]

Managing the Backbowls with a gate system allows them to not have to rope off and mark each run like the designated runs in the rest of the area as well as not having to mark every hazard with bamboo, signs, ribbons etc..but with the new chair being in the pipeline there's probably going to be some changes how some of the terrain is managed. Peoples time would be better spent working with the USFS for more winter trailhead access and parking instead of getting twisted up about developed ski areas uphill policies especially in the greater Puget Sound area. Part of the problem at the Pass and areas nearby is a fair amount of property next to roads isn't public land. There is some options but it will require different user groups getting together and developing solutions that don't turn into a "our land" and "your land" thing and realize that they are going to have to share public lands for recreation

[Malachai Constant]

Hey I admit that I am a bit of an old curmudgeon at times but I think the current crowding is largely due to COVID. Back in the day the areas at Snoqualmie were filled with school kids on lessons. Now not so much, trite as it may seem the future is with the young. We bought season passes when our kids were in school and spent Xmas at Crystal. Then they raised prices and Whistler was better and cheaper due to overbuilding. For training we did laps at Hyak when closed. XC at pass snoparks was fun when kids were older. Then they introduced grooming permits and never did much grooming. Snow droughts did not help. Now just have a wild card pass at Crystal and park our pop up in the parking lot. I agree it is as idiotic to skin up a downhill area in operation as riding a MTB up the downhill trails at Whistler. I still think the downhill areas are trying to kill off public access to XC AT areas that are accessible.

[snoqpass]

COVID-19 probably had some influence but the skier visit numbers have been going upwards in the last few years and not just at the Pass. The population in the area has increased a lot in the last 10-15 years as well as demand for recreation.There's still a lot of kids coming up to get lessons which are mostly sold out before the snow fly's. The Tubing Center is reservations only and is usually sold out as well. The Pass is overflowing on mid-winter weekends even some weekdays are seeing crowds that never used to happen mid-week. I could start a pretty good thread on the highway shutting down every time there's a little new snow due to poor driving of the masses. The number of people living up there has gone up as well and will continue once the Sewer Plant completes it's expansion adding to the congestion. The Hyak area as a example

[Randito]

I don't know the Alpental Pro Patrol's exact reasoning on the season long closure -- but I'm sure they have some good reasons that are based on prior experience. Both the inbounds and back bowl terrain feature numerous narrow passages, rollovers and blind spots. So there is greater risk of collisions between uphill and lift served skiers than is present for other Summit At Snoqualmie areas. At the other Summit at Snoqualmie areas the designated uphill routes all follow relatively moderate terrain. Based on my knowledge of the inbounds terrain at Alpental -- It would be challenging to create a designated uphill route at Alpental without areas with significant uphill / downhill skier collision risk. If there is an officially designated route and there is a collision -- there is potential liability to the ski area.

[snoqpass]

I believe most of the liability would be on the skiers. The RCW is a little dated in regards to uphill traffic and the skier responsibilities it is pretty clear if you are on foot or a sliding device but not so clear if you are skinning uphill generally it's the responsibility of the uphill skier to avoid the person below them but that's more so that you don't run someone over from behind when they can't see you as opposed to a person facing and heading uphill

[treeswarper]

Snoqpas, did you find that on their websits? I failed. I have seen a sign prohibiting use on days when the hill is closed, but since that hill is closed so much due to broken equipment, I can't see them enforcing it all the time. I got an evil eye when I hiked past the crew just going along a road in the area. Nothing was said, and the hill was not opened yet.

[Randito]