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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7700 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Sometimes I think some people are simply seeking attention and/or validation by trying to portray themselves as a savior of sorts of the environment. I could be way off but I doubt it.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2419 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Wed May 18, 2022 2:24 pm
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Honestly, C-Path, you don't have to beat the disclosure horse to death. I'm with Ruby here:
rubywrangler wrote: | zimmertr wrote: | All that concealing these locations does |
is encourage people to do research, learn how to read maps, and develop navigation skills. |
I've been up Pilchuck several times but never to Pinnacle or BTL. There's plenty of info already out there for those with even a smidge of research initiative (I guess, unfortunately). One WTA report even details the route from BTL to the lookout.
Over-use will degrade the area quickly. As Neek suggested, disclose, but don't necessarily publicize. Hence, my tag line. Note the comment by Ranger Barb at the end of the TR here: https://www.wta.org/go-hiking/trip-reports/trip_report-2021-09-27-5775151165 <sigh>
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
dixon
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
dixon
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 3:44 pm
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Anne Elk wrote: | Honestly, C-Path, you don't have to beat the disclosure horse to death. I'm with Ruby here:
rubywrangler wrote: | zimmertr wrote: | All that concealing these locations does |
is encourage people to do research, learn how to read maps, and develop navigation skills. |
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If somebody asks for help, and it's easy, I'm inclined to help. Obviously if I know they're going to do something evil, that changes things. But I assume good faith otherwise. I can't just assume somebody will do something bad just because they're a hiker. I'm sad that attitude is so common on a hiking forum.
If people want to learn to read maps and develop navigation skills, great! If they don't want to do that, great. It's not my place to decide what other people should learn, or if they're allowed to go hiking before they can tell different kinds of pines apart. I like to hike my own hike and I'm happy for other people to do the same.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 3:48 pm
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Chief Joseph wrote: | Sometimes I think some people are simple seeking attention and/or validation by trying to portray themselves as a savior of sorts of the environment. I could be way off but I doubt it. |
When people are demanding the internet be censored, they're squarely in the Putin camp.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2419 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Wed May 18, 2022 4:00 pm
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Cyclopath wrote: | When people are demanding the internet be censored, they're squarely in the Putin camp. |
That's just hyperbole, C-Path. No one here is saying that. Nothing wrong with a little discretion and holding a few cards back in the interests of preservation.
On the merits of your point, the internet has brought us great things; an amazing research tool, helps people connect, speed-of-light comms, etc. On the other hand, it gives a megaphone to every single person on the planet, with no vetting as to accuracy etc. No wonder our Founding Fathers made the country a republic, not a pure democracy. That may be hyperbole on my part. And probably skirting too close to the topics(s) which should not be discussed here.
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 4:29 pm
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Anne Elk wrote: | On the merits of your point, the internet has brought us great things; an amazing research tool, helps people connect, speed-of-light comms, etc. On the other hand, it gives a megaphone to every single person on the planet, with no vetting as to accuracy etc. |
Information literacy has become very important. I don't know if they're teaching it in schools today, my generation had to learn this on our own.
People have knowledge. A long time ago we invented and evolved language to be able to share knowledge with each other. Nowadays, we can choose to share our knowledge to help each other, or we can withhold it to help ourselves. Hoarding secrets only works when everybody is on board with the idea that this knowledge is only for people we think are special enough.
Private land is for excluding people. Public lands is for everybody. I don't have any more right to the Bathtubs than anybody else. It would be immoral to take information down that people share freely just to frustrate hikers.
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Anne Elk BrontosaurusTheorist
Joined: 07 Sep 2018 Posts: 2419 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Anne Elk
BrontosaurusTheorist
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Wed May 18, 2022 5:00 pm
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Cyclopath wrote: | It would be immoral to take information down that people share freely just to frustrate hikers. |
Hey, well the thread's come full circle now; 'cause if you believe that, then you should leave all that yellow highway paint up for the poor sods who hike but don't use digital technology and can't navigate with paper maps and a compass. And there's way more of 'em wandering around than when the paint was wet.
And as posters here commented, there are good environmental and historical reasons to leave them as they are. .
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
Chief Joseph
"There are yahoos out there. It’s why we can’t have nice things." - Tom Mahood
Chief Joseph
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 6:29 pm
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I'm going to leave the paint because I don't think I can remove it without spilling a lot of paint dust into the ground. And if the stuff can hurt me, it can also hurt the plants it will get into and the animals that eat them. I'm sure it's harmful to lichen that want to eat those rocks, but I don't think I can clean it up in a way that won't cause more harm.
I'm going to volunteer in Seattle for graffiti removal and see if I can learn to do a better job.
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Chief Joseph Member
Joined: 10 Nov 2007 Posts: 7700 | TRs | Pics Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
Cyclopath wrote: | Chief Joseph wrote: | Sometimes I think some people are simple seeking attention and/or validation by trying to portray themselves as a savior of sorts of the environment. I could be way off but I doubt it. |
When people are demanding the internet be censored, they're squarely in the Putin camp. |
Well, that's pretty dramatic....I am not advocating Censorship, just Discretion as to info on sensitive areas.
Cyclopath wrote: | I'm going to volunteer in Seattle for graffiti removal and see if I can learn to do a better job. |
A lot of "Graffiti" is art, you notice they no longer remove or paint over RR boxcars anymore? Some of those people are very talented and it gives you something to admire while waiting for the train to pass.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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iron Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2008 Posts: 6392 | TRs | Pics Location: southeast kootenays |
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iron
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Wed May 18, 2022 7:36 pm
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in the interest of helping people, you should go and put a collection of laminated trail maps at the turnoff to BTL with a QR code to scan for real time navigating. please do this for all places that aren't well publicized.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
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Wed May 18, 2022 7:39 pm
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Chief Joseph wrote: | Well, that's pretty dramatic....I am not advocating Censorship, just Discretion as to info on sensitive areas. |
You can be as discreet as you like, so can I.
Demanding somebody else to be more discreet than they think is right, is censorship.
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 7:40 pm
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iron wrote: | in the interest of helping people, you should go and put a collection of laminated trail maps at the turnoff to BTL with a QR code to scan for real time navigating. please do this for all places that aren't well publicized. |
You can do that if you think it's a worthy project.
I have other things on my plate.
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Bootpathguy Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Posts: 1788 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
My tongue-in-cheek comment over on trip reports on a old BTL trip report was satire for the ridiculousness here.
The OP clearly knows they can delete the maps but chooses to let them remain.
Sheesh!
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Bootpathguy Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2015 Posts: 1788 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
Schroder wrote: | Bootpathguy wrote: | I heard you can see The Bathtubs from Everett ( or vice-versa ) |
You can certainly see Everett from there & it's easy to see where the lakes are from the other direction |
Again. I'm was making a point
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Cyclopath Faster than light
Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Posts: 7720 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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Cyclopath
Faster than light
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Wed May 18, 2022 8:15 pm
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Bootpathguy wrote: | My tongue-in-cheek comment over on trip reports on a old BTL trip report was satire for the ridiculousness here.
The OP clearly knows they can delete the maps but chooses to let them remain. |
It took a little bit of time to make those maps for you, and anyone else who might benefit from them.
I wouldn't have spent that time if you hadn't asked for maps. I had already given one, and I suspected you were pulling my leg asking for maps, but I wasn't sure. And I've learned that if one person asks for something, five other people are thinking the same question but afraid to ask.
Why would I delete them? These lakes are on public land. They belong to all people and living things. If a person wants to visit them, I hope those maps help. I don't have any exclusive right to go hiking, in the Bathtubs or anywhere else. I let those maps remain because there isn't a good reason not to.
kitya
kitya
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