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Pyrites
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Pyrites
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 Mon May 06, 2024 5:02 pm |
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Another moose, or the one from a couple autumns ago?
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
Keep Calm and Carry On?
Heck No.
Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Tue May 07, 2024 9:58 am |
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| Pyrites wrote: | | Another moose, or the one from a couple autumns ago? |
It's the one from a couple of years ago. Some new videos highlighting the success of the projects are showing it.
 Mountainfisherman
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Chief Joseph
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Joined: 10 Nov 2007
Posts: 7753 | TRs | Pics
Location: Verlot-Priest Lake |
I| Schroder wrote: | | Chief Joseph wrote: | | I still say that the Griz will simply move to Canada. |
Some might but the ones they drop around in around the Mtn Loop Highway will have a few obstacles |
Really? I had no idea they were placing some down off the ML? Seems a bit weird and not a very good idea, bears don't like people, too many people down here and in the NCNP for that matter. The Griz in N Idaho mainly frequent the area of upper Priest lake and into Canada, only about 25 miles to the north.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Tue May 07, 2024 11:33 am |
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The Suiattle River is shown as a staging/release area in the EIS - that's why one of my earlier comments that they'll be raiding garbage cans in Darrington
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue May 07, 2024 12:04 pm |
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As I've mentioned before, the record of decision says release sites will be in National Park Service lands. The only time they would be released in adjacent National Forest lands if there are unforeseen circumstances (and even then, it would be adjacent to National Park Service Lands).
Darrington and the Mountain Loop Highway are not near National Park Service lands. The headwaters of the larger Suiattle River system is adjacent to National Park Service lands (some tributaries, such as Downey Creek). So yes, they could release in say, areas along the Ptarmigan Traverse that drain to the Suiattle River. But it's misinformation to claim that they may release near Darrington or the Mountain Loop Highway. They believe the bear's primary diet will be berries. There is no reason for the bears to come down valley to Darrington when there are abundant berry fields up higher in the range.
Secret Agent Man
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Ski
><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005
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Ski
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Tue May 07, 2024 12:26 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | There is no reason for the bears to come down valley to Darrington when there are abundant berry fields up higher in the range, until they get a whiff of that good home cookin' coming from the kitchens of Darrington and the aroma of garbage cans. |
FIFY
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue May 07, 2024 12:43 pm |
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There are 46 grizzlies living in the Squamish-Lillooet zone of British Columbia. These bears live directly next to the booming outdoor towns of Squamish, Whistler, and Pemberton (way more populated than Darrignton, Leavenworth, or the Methow Valley). Do these towns have a problem with grizzlies rummaging through their trash? What's different about this area than the remote parts of the high Cascades where grizzlies would live in Washington? The reason the grizzlies in this zone are not a nuisance in, say, Whistler, is because the grizzlies primarily live in the remote, high, headwaters of the range. They could waltz down to Whistler and pick up a pizza, but they don't.
https://www.coasttocascades.org/squamish-lillooet
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Tue May 07, 2024 1:22 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | As I've mentioned before, the record of decision says release sites will be in National Park Service lands. |
As you've said but that's not what the documents say. In the EIS they identified Suiattle River as the staging area for release into Glacier Peak Wilderness. The final documents say
| Quote: | | Release. Grizzly bears will be transported from capture locations to staging areas by truck and trailer. Staging areas will be located in previously disturbed, nonwilderness areas large enough for the safe landing of a helicopter, parking for a fuel truck, and any other grizzly bear transport and handling needs.
Grizzly bears will be transported from the staging area as soon as possible by helicopter and will likely remain at the staging areas for only a few hours, depending on weather and helicopter availability. The NPS and FWS will prioritize use of release sites on NPS lands. National forest lands are also included as potential release sites if unforeseen circumstances prevent access to release sites on NPS lands (e.g., poor weather or aircraft issues) that could jeopardize human and bear safety. Release areas will represent prime grizzly bear habitat, while the release sites will be based on selected habitat criteria, connectivity to other areas, and the need to have grizzly bears close to one another to facilitate interaction and ultimately breeding. |
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue May 07, 2024 1:49 pm |
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Ok, but staging a release near Darrington near the Suiattle River is not the same as releasing bears there. The bears will be flown up to the Ptarmigan Traverse area, just South of Cascade Pass, where no official trails go and is some of the more remote mountains in the lower 48. Maybe if there are unforeseen circumstances (like weather) on flight day they will be released in a place like Dome Peak, also some of the most remote mountains in the lower 48. People keep trying to claim that they will be released in heavily recreated, or heavily populated areas, but that is not true. We can't control where the bears travel on their own but I think we can confidently say that the bears will only be released in areas not many people travel through.
Secret Agent Man
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Ski
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Ski
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Tue May 07, 2024 1:54 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | Do these towns have a problem with grizzlies rummaging through their trash? |
NOT a clue. I'm not allowed in Canada.
I know they have a hell of a problem with bears in downtown Juneau (population 31685). That's why the trash cans are bolted down to the sidewalks and have fancy-schmantzy locking lids on them.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Tue May 07, 2024 1:58 pm |
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Wow, the fear mongering is getting ridiculous.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Schroder
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Schroder
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Tue May 07, 2024 2:01 pm |
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| altasnob wrote: | | Ok, but staging a release near Darrington near the Suiattle River is not the same as releasing bears there. The bears will be flown up to the Ptarmigan Traverse area, just South of Cascade Pass, where no official trails go and is some of the more remote mountains in the lower 48. Maybe if there are unforeseen circumstances (like weather) on flight day they will be released in a place like Dome Peak, also some of the most remote mountains in the lower 48. People keep trying to claim that they will be released in heavily recreated, or heavily populated areas, but that is not true. We can't control where the bears travel on their own but I think we can confidently say that the bears will only be released in areas not many people travel through. |
You think the ptarmigan traverse is not heavily travelled?
As for the other issues I've mentioned - I spent 35 summers in Alaska, sometimes up close to grizzlies. I saw many that would rather spend their time digging through community landfills than down on the river where 2 million salmon a day were passing through.
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue May 07, 2024 2:12 pm |
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| Ski wrote: | | they have a hell of a problem with bears in downtown Juneau |
That grizzly population primarily eats salmon near sea level. These grizzlies, just like the grizzlies in the Eastern part of the Coast Range of Canada, are more continental and primarily eat berries. Continental, berry eating grizzlies are more likely to stay at the headwaters of rivers. If Washington had a healthy salmon population, the grizzlies may eventually make it down river like in Alaska. But unfortunately, Washington does not have a healthy salmon population, and that should get worse with time.
From the Record of Decision:
| Quote: | | the agencies will prioritize source areas [for the captured, transplanted grizzlies] that are ecologically similar to the NCE (e.g., ecosystems where bears do not rely on salmon for a significant portion of their diet). |
Ski
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altasnob
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altasnob
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Tue May 07, 2024 2:15 pm |
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| Schroder wrote: | | You think the ptarmigan traverse is not heavily travelled? |
It's well traveled for a mountaineering route with no officially recognized trail that involves possible crevasse danger. But it's not well traveled compared to official trails, such as Cascade Pass or the PCT. If you are skilled enough to hike the Ptarmigan Traverse, you are skilled enough to deal with the possibility of a grizzly.
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Chief Joseph
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| RumiDude wrote: | | Wow, the fear mongering is getting ridiculous.
Rumi |
Really? Where? Not seeing it. 
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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