[Brian]

I'm new to the whole internal scene with my lowe alpine alpamayo pack, and haven't figured out the best way to carry a tent. what I've been doing is putting it right in the middle of the pack and putting everything else around it. It doesn't quite work with a cookset. What's your method of packing when you have all the gear in your pack, or when you backpack solo? Thanks Brian

[catwoman]

I certainly don't claim to be a great packer, but what I do is put the poles down one side (inside pack). Then the big part - the tent is flexible. I then put it in my pack on top inside the pack (it's about the first thing I want to take out when I find camp) - curving it around kind of like a horseshoe. It's the first thing I want to set up and the last thing I want to pack, so it works out pretty well for me that way. However, another way you could do it is keep the poles and tent together and put it horizontally between the top part of the pack and the mid section, with the ends poking out the sides and the straps that normally close the pack keeping it in place.

[Brian]

You know what is ridiculous? It never dawned on me to separate the poles from the tent! What a concept! Thanks, that's all I needed to know Brian

[catwoman]

Glad I could help!

[Allison]

It also makes life a lot easier if you ditch the stuff sack for the tent. Then it becomes something infinitely flexible, it has no shape, and you can fill all of the holes around more solid items like the food stuff things and the sleeping bag. Sometimes I put the poles and stakes (in skinny pole bag) on the outside of the pack. If you carry tennis shopes or sandals for around camp, these pack well around the sleeping bag, which set horizontally in the pack, probably isn't as wide as the inside of the pack.

[MtnGoat]

I minimize my use of stuff sacks for the same reasons allison mentions, they force the gear in them to be confined in certain shapes that can take up more room than if scattered. I use an empty stuff sack or two when unpacking, but none when the pack is being loaded. And I am second only to Damian when it comes to the amount of crap in one's pack. Even I draw the line at frying pans, but then I'm certainly not going to bitch when he drags it out of his pack and commences with the cookin' of sumptuous vittles!

[Vine Maple Victim]

I was just packing for a 2 night trip on which I embark tomorrow morning, and packing the tent stakes clearly helped. I opted not to remove the stuff sack because it has a sewed in pocket that has the tent repair kit in it, and I don't have another bag for it. But with this, and reading www.backpacking.net , my pack is signifigantly smaller and more organized. VMV...previously known as BRIAN.

[Allison]

Your tent repair kit would probably fit great in a small Ziplock bag. Tent bag is both unecessary weight and a hindrance to packing your pack jussst riiight!!

[Vine Maple Victim]

I'll check it out. I would love to have the lightest load possible for a two night trip that I leave for in....8 hours! jesus...time to go to bed. VMV

[Allison]

Well, remember, shoot for 20# and be happy with 25#. Totally doable without going all Ray Jardine, or spending 10,000 dollars on widgets. The best advice I ever got was to weigh every item before placing it in the pack. You really start to think about whether or not you need that THING....

[Mike Collins]

The stuff sacks are more than just nice containers for the tent, sleeping bags, and Thermorest pads. They most importantly protect the fabric from tears. If you strap these to the outside of the pack then the stuff sack will protect them from the branches which will inevitably snag whatever brushes against it. The Thermorest is particularly prone to punctures.

[catwoman]

Yes, I agree. Some things are much better off in stuff sacks. Besides, one needs a pillow at night - yes!

[Allison]

Stuff on outside of pack=stuff sack Stuff on inside of pack=no stuff sack, except the food. It's too much loose crap, and unlike the 'Goat, I like to have it sort of consolidated, plus I *always* hang the food bag in order to keep snafflehound activity down to a dull roar. Mostly it expedites un- and re-packing. Not damaging fabrics with stuff on inside of pack, stuff sack free, is part of the finer points (Packing Your Pack 200, UW Extension) of packing. When I make some of those super-light stuff sacks I might go back to using one or 2 more.

[Vine Maple Victim]

It turned out pretty good. I used one stuff sack for all my clothes, because I always lose socks in there. Everything else was loose, including tent. (I rolled/folded it up then tied it with two strings) the sleeping bag and clothes sack fit into the sleeping bag compartment with the divier in place, thaen the rest was in the top part. Plus, since my hiking partner was a first time backpacker, it made me look really slick His pack was overflowing with unneccesary, single use garbage. He was even returning a creel to me from a prior trip, and rather than hand it to me in the car, he packed it to the mountains to tell me about it, then packed it out! I still want to cut down on weight, i think the pack was somewhere between 45 and 50. One thing that makes it tough is having a 7 lb tent, an 3 lbs old peak 1 stove, and a 7 pound pack. That is almost 20 pounds right there. Tomorrow i'm going to make one of those alcohol burning pop can stoves, that should cut a couple pounds, but i can't escape the pack and tent weight cause for one i like them, and two they're new. Brian

[salish]

Brian, about four years ago I started backpacking again after having not backpacked since John Denver was on top of the charts. I had all the same gear; a big heavy tent, heavy stove, huge nesting pot set, 5 lb down bag, all kinds of pill bottles for this and that, clothes up the ying yang, candle lanterns, metal fuel bottles, and hi top heavy cleated full leather "eiger" boots with a full shank that probably went 5 lbs (with red shoelaces!). All of this was stacked on top of an old external frame pack. Hikers we passed thought we looked like dyno's from a bygone era. I sill use the old pack and stove once in awhile for on trail backpacking, but I've sure learned a lot from this board and www.backpacking.net, and it's saved my aging back, knees, and lungs. I haven't gone ultralite, but I've gone "light". I can now hit the trail for an overnighter or even a weekend trip with a pack that weighs 18-22 lbs, including food & water, fishing gear, etc. Make your pop can stove and use a small aluminum pot and see the weight difference. I use an esbit wing stove and small pot from an old boy scout set. Instead of my old heavy tent I use an 8x10 silicone impregnated tarp, and it works great at 12oz. I went to a smaller & lighter pack that weighs 3.7 lbs instead of 6, and I bought a lightweight bag that weighs 1.12 lbs instead of 5. It all makes a difference. On some shorter hikes to lakes I fish I sometimes take the huge pack with all kinds of wonderful food and luxury items, but it's really nice to be able to slip a pack on they weighs around 20 lbs! Good luck.