| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
TheWanderer
Guest
|
|
TheWanderer
Guest
|
 Tue Aug 13, 2002 1:32 am |
|
|
My question is why do many people consider an altimeter an essential navigation tool?
If you know how to orient your position on a map and shoot an azimuth, why would you need your elevation?
I can understand a mountain climber scaling a large summit considering an altimeter essential. (We considered them essential while doing night drops in the military).
I can understand a GPS becoming essential in some marine, desert and artic environments.
We are all accustomed to using USGS maps here, however some foreign maps are really poor in accuracy. Perhaps then one of these navigation tools are considered essential. What is your take on this?
|
| Back to top |
  
|
 |
-lol-
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 767 | TRs | Pics
|
|
-lol-
Member
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:51 am |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dean
(aka CascadeHiker)
Joined: 02 Mar 2002
Posts: 1967 | TRs | Pics
Location: ex Kennewick, Wa & Lehi Utah |
|
Dean
(aka CascadeHiker)
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:55 am |
|
|
I enjoy the extra knowledge of elevation gained as I hike up a trail. An altimeter allows me to judge my progress as I relate elevation gain to the amount of time walking. I can relate the elevation to my topo map and while I'm not using the altimeter to navigate in this case, it does make my hike more interesting as I go along. I love to answer the question that people often ask me as I'm leaving an area "How much further to the lake?" My answer is: "only 500 more feet of elevation gain"
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Collins
Member
Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 3096 | TRs | Pics
|
Certainly in foggy situations the altimeter is quite helpful. I will recalibrate at a know altitude such as a pass, summit, or lake. Then the routefinding is more reliable.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
|
MtnGoat
Member
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:33 am |
|
|
I agree, in fog conditions when you cannot shoot an azimuth the altimeter comes into it's own.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ajgoodkids
Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 113 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah |
I consider an altimeter as important as a compass for traditional navigation in the Cascades. If you could always go in a straight line, had no obstacles, and always had clear views around you, you might not need an altimeter. That doesn't sound like the Cascades. The nice thing about altimeter navigation is it doesn't require constant attention like compass navigation.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Wanderer
Guest
|
|
The Wanderer
Guest
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:07 am |
|
|
| ajgoodkids wrote: | | I consider an altimeter as important as a compass for traditional navigation in the Cascades. If you could always go in a straight line, had no obstacles, and always had clear views around you, you might not need an altimeter. That doesn't sound like the Cascades. The nice thing about altimeter navigation is it doesn't require constant attention like compass navigation. |
Interesting statement.
One is you do consider an altimeter as important as a compass. Two is you do not walk in a straight line or if I may elaborate walking to a landmark that you shot with an azimuth.
So I guess you only shoot long range azimuths to get your bearing? 
I think if you are navigating in fog, it is a very good idea to be familiar with a route. I suppose there is a reason why many people hold off in white out conditions like many world class alpine climbers who use an altimeter for more than just navigatrion.
Sorry I'm still trying to figure this out.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
All Time Eater
Guest
|
|
All Time Eater
Guest
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:07 am |
|
|
If you are on a trail and can see an obvious feature on the map and visibile terrain, the compass is usually all you need.
If you are on a trail and in heavy forest, fog, there are multiple trails in a similar area, or many switchbacks, there are no features... etc., then an altimeter comes in handy. Generally for casual hikers, an altimeter is an extra.
If you go off trail, and can see two or more obvious features, then via triangulation you can locate yourself on the map/terrain. If you can only see one, then an altimeter can give you the second "unknown".
The altimeter is my favorite hiking gadget. Even better than boots or ski poles or an ice axe or a camera or a good-looking partner. OK, never mind about the partner -- rather have that than the altimeter any day.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 3:09 pm |
|
|
I'd like to second the sentiment that altis are very useful for micro-navigation. If I know I need to take a right turn at 5500 feet and traverse the hill, my watch will help me find that spot with great accuracy and minimal thought. Also my numero uno favorite gadget.
I'd like to get one for one of my climbing buddies but don't want to pay a lot for it, if anyone sees them on sale for a great price (like the gart sports deal a few mos back) let me know.
I've got the Casio, and my field experiences put it more accurate than the more expensive Suunto. When this one finally bites the dust, it will be rpeplaced with another Casio. 
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
|
| Back to top |
|
|
salish
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 2322 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
salish
Member
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 3:33 pm |
|
|
Allison: which Casio model do you have?
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 3:38 pm |
|
|
I think it's called the Pathfinder. I've had it for 3-4 years.
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
|
| Back to top |
|
|
salish
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 2322 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
salish
Member
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 3:54 pm |
|
|
Thanks
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Wanderer
Guest
|
|
The Wanderer
Guest
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:48 pm |
|
|
| allison wrote: | | I'd like to second the sentiment that altis are very useful for micro-navigation. If I know I need to take a right turn at 5500 feet and traverse the hill, my watch will help me find that spot with great accuracy and minimal thought. Also my numero uno favorite gadget.: |
If you are familiar with an area this seems okay. However if you would be hiking in an unfamiliar area would you still recommend this method? Was your right turn 70, 80, or 90 degrees? How many paces do you need to walk on that turn? How many paces equal say a quarter mile? I'm just bringing up basic navigation techniques that people should be familiar with. Or are they dependent on the altimeter.
"I'd like to get one for one of my climbing buddies but don't want to pay a lot for it, if anyone sees them on sale for a great price (like the gart sports deal a few mos back) let me know."
They sure are expensive for the number of features you get.
I found some reviews interesting in how accurate and inaccurate some of these watches can be.
http://www.gearreview.com/altiwatches.asp
http://www.summitpost.com/cgi-bin/gear_reviews/category.pl?category=Altimeters
http://www.trailrunnermag.com/gear/oldgear.html
"I've got the Casio, and my field experiences put it more accurate than the more expensive Suunto. When this one finally bites the dust, it will be rpeplaced with another Casio. "
How accurate is the Casio watch? I've only tried the Suunto. Is it temperature dependent?
I actually live in Colorado and hike the PCT occasionally. I check the forums out there from time to time to get an idea of conditions, gripes, etc...
I originally had this response in another post but it got edited and brought up as a new post. I suppose because the moderator felt it was a topic that should be its own post. I apoligize if I offended anyone.
Its just I trained people in the military on field navigation and never in any terrain have I felt that an altimeter is an ESSENTIAL tool. I have always trained that the ESSENTIAL tools in field navigation is a map, compass and your BRAIN. Now don't stop there, it's not that you have those three items but that you know how to use those items.
I find it interesting people who adjust for declination based on information of thirty year old maps, and in some places especially the NW you could be several degrees off by doing this.
Or people who can't identify features on a map, be it a saddle, ridge, valley or whatever.
I also found it curious that people were recommending an altimeter over a GPS. If I knew someone on a tight budget who is a hiker, not a climber or a diver. I would certainly recommend a GPS over an altimeter. I know Tom isn't a fan of the Etrex but I have used one all over the country and get reasonable reception. Yes sometimes it does lose reception because of the base plate anntenna it uses. Rarely do I have to go far to get a signal however. These units are not on par with what we used in the military but for less than $100 at Amazon, I find it tough to beat for the technology.
If you have a person who is not well versed in field navigation, would you recommend a tool that give altitude or a tool that gives altitude and position?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rich Baldwin
Mister Eddie
Joined: 22 Dec 2001
Posts: 1686 | TRs | Pics
Location: Martinique |
When you're lost, you can offer the altimeter as a gift to anyone who can show you where you are on the map.
Was you ever bit by a dead bee?
Was you ever bit by a dead bee?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
|
Allison
Feckless Swooner
|
Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:55 pm |
|
|
My nav skills are just fine, thanks. I know how to use a map and compass. I find GPSs currently unwieldy, unreliable, and for my purposes, unnecessary. I am rarely on big snow, and never in whiteout or desert. The handiest thing I do in the course of a day in terms of not getting lost is looking over my shoulder at the return view every fifteen minutes and taking a mental snapshot.
When my alti watch is WAAY off, it's off by 40 feet. When it's only somewhat off, it's off by 20 feet. That's plenty accurate enuf to keep me from getting too terribly lost. In four years of heavy use, it's never been 60 feet off. Pretty handy little tool, and I'm still on my first or second battery.
Alli
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
