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polarbear
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 3680 | TRs | Pics
Location: Snow Lake hide-away |
Could they really go for maintaining the status quo? It seems like any official plan would have to entail either gating it or at least some moderate improvements.
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Odonata
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Joined: 14 Aug 2002
Posts: 306 | TRs | Pics
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Odonata
Member
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 Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:15 pm |
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It looks like the Forest Service will repair any damage to the trail, but not the the road. After reading the document, I don't think the road will be passable to motor vehicles for too many more years. I just don't see the property owners coughing up the dough for road repair. Here is a section:
"Should a significant storm event occur which blocks or washes out the private road/NFS Trail prism, the Forest Service would take appropriate steps to reconstruct the trail. Concurrently, should landowners decide they want continued vehicular access to their property; they would need to submit their proposal to the Forest Service for approval.
... woody debris to the valley floors from high on the slopes. These debris slides cut across and deposit material on Road 5600, mostly above Dingford Creek, with each major storm event."
The land owners have a 10 ft road easement, so it will be difficult for them to drive around road blocking slides. And when they go to fix the slide, they have to get approval.
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Randy
Cube Rat
Joined: 18 Dec 2001
Posts: 2910 | TRs | Pics
Location: Near the Siamangs |
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Randy
Cube Rat
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:38 pm |
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Answers my question, thanks O!
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Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 10955 | TRs | Pics
Location: Going to Tukwila |
| Kat wrote: | | And let me continue ad nauseum! It is UNFAIR to residents along the I-90 corridor to be deprived of day hike, or single overnight access to the area when Hwy 2 residents RETAIN that.
The USFS is unfairly discriminating against residents residing along I-90, vs Hwy 2. |
What prevents you from driving around and using the same access from Hwy 2?
My personal opinion is that if they don't want to continue maintaining it, that's fine, but it's no reason to gate the road entirely and remove any chance of vehicular access.
It's not a matter of getting "more wilderness". Gating the road won't make it any less of a road, especially with the current inholders continuing to use it.
Worse, I see the closure at Dingford as compressing the use which would typically be evenly distributed along the valley back into a much smaller section. Those trails are going to see significantly more use (overuse) and lesser visited locales will likely become more common / crowded destinations for the destructive mobs.
Ugh. Speak up or forever hold your peace.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:48 pm |
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| Kat wrote: | | Quark wrote: | | Kat wrote: | | The USFS is unfairly discriminating against residents residing along I-90, vs Hwy 2. |
Huh??? Where'd you come up with that? This has nothing to do with discrimination. |
Quark, I came up with the discrimination factor by simple mileage. Check your geography, gal. |
As has been mentioned before on this thread, you're missing the point. I know where Hwy 2 is vs. Hwy 90 - but geography has nothing to do with it. Discrimination has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps I can help you understand the real issue - which, I cannot stress enough, is extremely important when it comes to responding to the government when they ask for feedback.
Hypothetically: Let's say the road to the N Fk. Sky were off Hwy 2 was under consideration for closure, thereby cutting off access to Henry M. Jackson Wilderness as well as the Mid Fk Snoq. off I-90. There - equal footing - no perceieved to cloud the real issue. Now they're proposing to close (in this scenario) BOTH ROADS, ONE ON I-90 AND ONE ON HWY 2 because they're too costly to maintain and police.
Do you agree with this proposal.
That's the issue.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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peppersteak'n'ale
Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 1996 | TRs | Pics
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Just how hard would it be to mountain bike that road anyway, would they allow dirtbikes?
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:28 am |
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| gj wrote: | | Kat, you need a critter-sitter. Maybe they should close the roads on the Hwy 2 side too. |
welcome to vastly restricted access for most people. this is way, way too much.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Grinch
Local Burger Tester
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 453 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah, WA |
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Grinch
Local Burger Tester
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:51 am |
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Do they actually do road maintanance up the middle fork past Dingford Creek? I have never noticed any. Do they actually police the middle fork past Taylor River? I could be lost here, but where is the cost?
I did send Mr. Schenk my opinion, I'm not sure they listen to public opinion, it is the government and when have they listened to the people they are supposed to represent.
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Brian Curtis
Trail Blazer/HiLaker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 1696 | TRs | Pics
Location: Silverdale, WA |
Wilderness is not about the convenience of human users. I've been advocating the closure of this road for 20+ years. I heard the same gnashing of teeth when the Taylor River bridge was burned and they closed that road. Now it is a well loved hike. The only problem is that they aren't going far enough and closing it at the Taylor like they should.
They've been wanting to cut the Miller River road off where it crosses the river several miles back so there is no I-90 vs Hwy 2 discrimination (as if that were possible anyway).
Every so often the road gets washed out a few miles before Dingford Creek and every time that's happened the lakes above the washout still see heavy use.
that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
that elitist from silverdale wanted to tell me that all carnes are bad--Studebaker Hoch
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics
Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:31 am |
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My comments, sent by email, bounced. Anyone else have that problem?
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Backpacker Joe
Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001
Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics
Location: Cle Elum |
I believe that motorcycles are going to be the answer!
My bigest problem is the hypocirsy of it all. If you are going to close it then close it. Dont then offer keys to SOME people as they are planning to do. Im just going to get one of those keys and drive the damn road.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:53 am |
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| Quote: | | I heard the same gnashing of teeth when the Taylor River bridge was burned and they closed that road. Now it is a well loved hike. |
Since that is all that you can do, what other option is there?
| Quote: | | They've been wanting to cut the Miller River road off where it crosses the river several miles back so there is no I-90 vs Hwy 2 discrimination (as if that were possible anyway). |
This is a good example of what is at work here. Instead of parity by retaining access, they are pursuing it by elimination of options. Yes, it will be more equal. Unfortunately, it's the equality of reduced options.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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MtnGoat
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
Member
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:58 am |
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| Quote: | | My bigest problem is the hypocirsy of it all. If you are going to close it then close it. Dont then offer keys to SOME people as they are planning to do. Im just going to get one of those keys and drive the damn road. |
this is the problem here. this is a partial solutioin merely because they lack the muscle to entirely screw the inholders. there will *still* be road use, but only by a few. the road will not become a trail, because it will remain a road in use.
The bottom line is those thinking they're getting a trail are getting nothing they don't already have... a road they can walk on if they want....but without the choice to drive it if they want.
It will not grow in like the taylor "trail", because it will not be allowed to, because it's still a road.
Every time you see the case made for closing the road, lets make sure we realize what that really means here in real life in the real world. You're not getting a trail, you're getting a road you can't drive on.... it's open for some, but it's closed for YOU.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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-lol-
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 767 | TRs | Pics
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-lol-
Member
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:20 am |
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Tom
Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 17857 | TRs | Pics
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Tom
Admin
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:56 am |
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| MtnGoat wrote: | | The bottom line is those thinking they're getting a trail are getting nothing they don't already have... a road they can walk on if they want....but without the choice to drive it if they want.
It will not grow in like the taylor "trail", because it will not be allowed to, because it's still a road. |
Yep, ala Monte Cristo.
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