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Eric
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Eric
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PostWed May 04, 2005 8:20 pm 
Quote:
I am a complete idiot. I thought that the NW forest pass worked anywhere in the NW. I guess my friend is an idiot too, because he bought the NW forest pass to park at paradise at MRNP. Which pass effectively works for , hmm, lets say the Wenaha-Tuccanon Wilderness trailheads (Washington side)?
Wehana Tuccanon is National Forest so you need a Forest Pass or Golden Eagle. Basically: NW Forest Pass = US Forest Service $30 National Parks Pass = National Parks $50 North Cascades is kind of the weird exception because it is run more like a USFS wilderness. Someone correct me if I am wrong but AFAIK you need a NW Forest Pass rather than a National Park Pass. Even though the freaking picture on the National Parks Pass is of a goat and some peaks inside of the North Cascades N.P. huh.gif I suspect John Cleese would make a great spokesman for explaining these passes, he could play it straight and it would be great comedy. Anyway, if you need both FS and NPS then you want a Golden Eagle which is a National Parks Pass with a special shiny sticker that doubles as the equivalent of a NW Forest Pass. It costs $65 which is cheaper than buying the two afformentioned passes seperately. Plus you get BLM and US Fish and Wildlife too. So basically Golden Eagle covers most of your federal lands (except Army Corp of Engineers and NPS Backcountry Fees and whatever else I'm forgetting).
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Does anyone know if "Duck Stamp" replaces "Access Stewardship Pass"? Those are required at Frenchmen's Coulee, and other places. Also, which pass do you need to park in Sno-parks? Is that still a sepprit permit?
YOu got your US Fish and Wildlife mixed with your Washington state Dept of Fish and Wildlife. THe federal pass is the Duck stamp. The WA state one is the Vehicle Use Permit which was formerly called the Access Stewardship Pass and is that yellow or white sticker that you put on your car. Snoparks is still seperate as far as I know. That goes through WA State Parks. And then there is your secondary groomed trails snopark pass for certain sno parks too. Hypothetically, if you were to use all of the "public" lands in Washington with individual agency and pass names and prices for the whole year it would be: USFS - NW Forest Pass - $30 NPS - National Parks Pass - $50 US Fish & Wildlife - Duck Stamp - $15 BLM - ? - $25 US Army Corps of Engineers - ? - $30 WDFW - Vehicle Use Permit - $10.95 WA State Parks - Natural Investment Permit hurl.gif - $50 WA State Parks in Winter - Sno Park - $20 Some WA State Parks in Winter - Sno Parks Special Groomed Trails - $20 WA Dept Natural Resources - Recreational Use Permit - Still Free? That would be $250.95 total if you paid for all of those though of course no one actually would. Plus back here in reality I also paid $7 to the Makahs. And that doesn't counting camping or backcountry fees or boat or motorized vehicle fees or whatever else there is. Nor does it count any states fees for state agencies outside of Washington in Oregon or Idaho or California or Montana etc. Nor anything Canadian. Or any city or county park lands that charge a fee.

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jenjen
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jenjen
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PostWed May 04, 2005 8:45 pm 
North Cascades Nat. Park is still just the forest pass. There's only a handful of trailheads actually in the park itself. Most trailheads are in the Mt. Baker wilderness or the North Cascades Recreation Area. $250.95 for all the passes and permits necessary to hike wherever you want in the state. Holy Moses. That's just a bit mindblowing.

If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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Eric
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Eric
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PostWed May 04, 2005 9:00 pm 
Yeah. The Cascade River Road is the only road actually in the park itself. There's probably signs up there in the parking lot that tell but to read those you'd have to take your eyes off of Johannesburg. There is also the Lake Ross National Recreation Area and Lake Chelan National Recreation Areas within the North Cascades National Park Complex and those too are run by the FS ranger offices, Okanogan and Mt. Baker/Snoqualmie. However, really since it is a national park and the others are national recreation areas I think they might be covered by the National Parks Pass too which supposedly covers all parks and all national recreation areas. I kinda doubt they would be too sticky about that one, even as eager as they are to write tickets. I never really paid much attention to the NOCA rules because regardless of whether it is Forest Pass or National Parks Pass, I just hung both from the mirror before and now that Golden Eagle covers the FS that has you covered either way. I doubt hardly anyone spends 250 but I spend the 65 for the Golden Eagle and 10.95 for the WDFW and 50 for the WA State parks. So that is 125 right there.

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termite
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termite
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PostWed May 04, 2005 9:56 pm 
Thanks for the breakdown Eric. I have a friend in portland who has a pass that lets him use federal and state land for free because he is utilizing it as part of a "suoigiler ecneirepxe". I myself couldn't really do this.

"I seem to have lost my bearing."
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Dante
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PostThu May 05, 2005 7:53 am 
Malachai Constant wrote:
Not only that but it can be a $5000 fine and hard time if you quess wrong under the new RAT Tax. rant.gif mad.gif rant.gif
What's that Mac? Link? BTW, we should all print this thread and send it to our state and federal representatives. This is ridiculous lol.gif

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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostThu May 05, 2005 8:34 am 
link In late November of 2004, the Recreation Fee Demonstration Program (Fee-Demo) was replaced with a more aggressive, expanded, and generally worse program known as the "Recreation Access Tax" [ RAT ]. Fee-Demo is dead though, for now, the RAT lives on.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Dante
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PostThu May 05, 2005 12:49 pm 
Malachai Constant wrote:
link In late November of 2004, the Recreation Fee Demonstration Program (Fee-Demo) was replaced with a more aggressive, expanded, and generally worse program known as the "Recreation Access Tax" [ RAT ]. Fee-Demo is dead though, for now, the RAT lives on.
RATs! bawl.gif So where can I NOT go with the $85 Washington & Oregon Recreation Pass? The chart linked to the first page of this thread suggests I can use USDA Forest Service, National Park, BLM, US Fish & Wildlife, Corps of Engineers, Oregon State Parks and Washington State Parks agency lands. However, it also says "** See back for participating sites." Here is the LIST OF PARTICIPATING SITES

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Quark
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Quark
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PostThu May 05, 2005 2:51 pm 
This makes my head hurt.

"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate." Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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jenjen
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jenjen
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PostThu May 05, 2005 9:44 pm 
God, this is as bad as figuring out which long-distance phone service to use. Except without all the rebates and free minutes.

If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostThu May 05, 2005 10:11 pm 
That matrix is a quick, visual way to see what it's going to cost ya for basic access. I don't see the big problem. I hesitate to wish for a simpler system, because I'm terrified that I might someday get my wish. I'm sure there are some people on this board who "recreate" extensively across several jurisdictions. For those folks, simple universal access via an "omnipass" may make sense. I'm too cheap for that. But I do want unlimited annual access to specific regions. As long as we still have cafeteria-like choices for access, some kind of a display of those choices is helpful.

"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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gary
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gary
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PostThu May 05, 2005 10:19 pm 
jenjen wrote:
God, this is as bad as figuring out which long-distance phone service to use.
Or trying to figure out the fishing regulations in this state*. * Section BFD1549 River X is fishable in odd number years, if you're on the south bank. Otherwise it is legal to fish the east bank, only in odd numbered years if they end in 2,4,6 or 8. Unless you are using a fishing pole, where all fishing is prohibited unless your last name begins with the letters A-M and you are fishing from mile 7 through mile 1. If your last name begins with the letters A-M, fishing is prohibited if your first name begins with A-F or Q-Z, otherwise fishing is allowed on the north bank if it is the second Tuesday of any given calendar week within the fishing season. Fishing season is between April 1st and Sept 15th, except for Tuesdays. Selective fishing (see Section 1539BFD) rules apply on all sections except from mile 2 through mile 2.

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danoh
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PostFri May 06, 2005 12:33 am 
Remember, Mount St. Helens National Monument is also part of the NW Forest Pass System, not the National Parks Pass. What a confusing mess!

tred lightly!
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Dante
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Dante
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PostFri May 06, 2005 2:16 pm 
I'll probably just pay the $85 (plus whatever the Makah are charging this year) and be done with it.

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jbiro
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PostFri May 06, 2005 2:26 pm 
Info on the Washington & Oregon Recreation Pass
This may provide some benefit to those who have questions regarding the pass. http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/feedemo/worp.shtml

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danoh
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danoh
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PostSat May 07, 2005 10:49 pm 
Anyone know if the W&O Recreation pass is good at National Parks outside of Washington and Oregon, like the National Parks Pass?

tred lightly!
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