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Sculpin
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 8:57 am 
zimmertr wrote:
I have triple GPS redundancy. And I always build gpx routes ahead of time for big days to follow. I see little reason for a map and compass with that level of redundancy.

[slips off log and falls in stream]  clown.gif

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Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir

rbuzby
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zimmertr
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 11:13 am 
Are you suggesting a map and compass would prevent that outcome? Or that I'm a fool for using a GPS and would follow a track out on a sketchy log over a river? lol

I will admit sometimes I print off Caltopo maps with the Sentinel imagery layer on shoulder seasons so I can review snow conditions on the fly.

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 11:45 am 
moonspots wrote:
https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/how-vulnerable-is-gps

In 2011, Iran had made headlines by successfully capturing a C.I.A. drone about a hundred miles from the border with Afghanistan. No one had been sure how the seizure happened: jamming could disorient a drone but not take it over. Humphreys suggested that Iran had succeeded by spoofing the signalónot just interfering with it but actually replacing it with a phantom G.P.S. signal. Tricked into trusting the false system, aircraft could then be commandeered and captured. ďLetís try something more ambitious,Ē Humphreys told D.H.S. He would see whether he could down a drone.

🤯

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 12:25 pm 
rbuzby wrote:
Miscreants have already discarded the perfect name for the range "The Cascades" in favor of the pathetic "The Bulgers" and now poor old Tiffany Mountain is going to be subsumed also? Will it ever stop? When people introduce their friends to the range now, they say "you just climbed your first Bulger!" Instead of "Welcome to the North Cascades!"   What next?  With it's 600+ feet of prominence, it's going to be the "Bulger Needle" soon, isnt it? The old Space Needle.  Where's my bag for hyperventilating, I need to breath in it for a while to get over this.  Tiffany Tiffany Tiffany......

The entire world is trying to stop me because it would be really expensive to have to print up new maps with THE BULGERS written across them.

rbuzby
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 4:27 pm 
It seems like signing the valid, legit data would solve this problem.  It would have to be signed with a new key every day, I think?  I'm not sure how the positional data affects that, if it was just the time you would want to prevent somebody from storing yesterday's signed values and sending them at the wrong time today.  I don't know if it's possible for the satellites to generate a private key and the world to generate a corresponding public key, independently, without communication.

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CS
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PostThu Aug 04, 2022 4:38 pm 
GPS is already encrypted, but that doesn't prevent disruption of the signal itself. The GPS backup proposals include terrestrial transmitters and satellites lower to the earth, so basically using the earth to shield the signals and just more options to get a signal.

https://www.transportation.gov/pnt/gps-backup-demonstration-participants-and-technologies

On a side note, it's interesting to see the challenges NASA had with space navigation... I recall they basically just programed the nav computers to find the brightest darn thing in the sky, and hope that was the sun, and use that as the reference point.

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Aug 05, 2022 8:28 am 
CS wrote:
GPS is already encrypted, but that doesn't prevent disruption of the signal itself.

Are you sure it's encrypted?  Because people are making fake GPS signals and receivers are believing it.

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philfort
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PostFri Aug 05, 2022 8:49 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
Are you sure it's encrypted?† Because people are making fake GPS signals and receivers are believing it.

For military usage, it's definitely encrypted.

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PostFri Aug 05, 2022 8:57 am 
Well it sounds like just signing the data as it goes out would prevent the attacks described in the New Yorker article where GPSr units are fooled into thinking a fake signal is authentic.

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CS
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PostFri Aug 05, 2022 4:17 pm 
https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-tech/space/2020/08/07/space-force-complete-m-code-upgrades-to-gps-control-segment/

Quote:
7 Aug. 2020 -- While the new anti-spoofing, anti-jamming, encrypted M-code signal has been available on many GPS satellites for years, the military has not had the corresponding ground and user equipment to access and leverage it.

The $6.2 billion Next-Generation Operational Control System, or OCX, being built by Raytheon Technologies for that purpose is five years behind schedule and isnít expected to be delivered until June 2021.

To provide access for war fighters in the interim, the Air Force awarded Lockheed Martin a contingency operations contract in 2016 to build an M-code upgrade to the current GPS Operational Control System.

I must have forgotten which planet I live on, I guess just recently the military thought to use the encryption.

Cyclopath
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Secret Agent Man
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PostFri Aug 05, 2022 5:55 pm 
Iím jamming the GPS of anyone trying to go to my favorite places and sending them to Rattlesnake Ledge instead.

Cyclopath
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