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Eric Hansen
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Eric Hansen
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 8:26 am 
New York Times reports on Stanford U. study, and maps Headline: "Wildfire Smoke Is Erasing Progress on Clean Air" https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/22/climate/wildfire-smoke-pollution.html "The new analysis reveals a picture of daily exposure to wildfire smoke in better geographic detail than ever before. Researchers found a 27-fold increase over the past decade in the number of people experiencing an “extreme smoke day,” which is defined as air quality deemed unhealthy for all age groups. In 2020 alone, nearly 25 million people across the contiguous United States were affected by dangerous smoke."

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neek
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 8:29 am 
non-subscriber link https://nyti.ms/3feLMLO

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Eric Hansen
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 9:55 am 
Color maps seem easier to read in this coverage (of Stanford U. report) from The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/22/air-quality-wildfire-smoke-pollution-health-risks

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gb
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 12:15 pm 
We will see an increasing number of studies on the effects of repeated smoke exposure in the near future, and on the health costs of such. It will not be a minor thing.

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gb
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 2:46 pm 
gb wrote:
We will see an increasing number of studies on the effects of repeated smoke exposure in the near future, and on the health costs of such. It will not be a minor thing.
It took two minutes to confirm one such study that details limited work done thus far, but also points in the direction of future studies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6743728/ The smart money is to minimize exposure when things are bad.

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altasnob
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 2:55 pm 
What about wildland fire fighters? Maybe that profession shouldn't exist anymore because there is no way we can keep them from being exposed to dangerous levels of smoke. Just let it all burn and let people who chose to live in the wildland-urban interface (one third of all Americans) assume the risk of their choice.

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gb
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 3:04 pm 
altasnob wrote:
What about wildland fire fighters? Maybe that profession shouldn't exist anymore because there is no way we can keep them from being exposed to dangerous levels of smoke. Just let it all burn and let people who chose to live in the wildland-urban interface (one third of all Americans) assume the risk.
I assume you are being facetious....What about city fire departments, then? City firefighters are exposed not only to burning wood and vegetation burned particles but also airborne chemical residues. Let it burn in the new climate would mean fires of immense scale and smoke that would not only have long term effects but most likely cause a great deal of acute respiratory problems and deaths. And then there is the ecology and hiking. This is a hiking website, isn't it?

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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 3:24 pm 
City firefighters use supplied air. A bigger concern for them seems to be the chemicals on their turnout suits https://www.govtech.com/em/safety/firefighter-gear-is-full-of-chemicals-how-dangerous-are-they.html?_amp=true

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altasnob
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 3:27 pm 
gb wrote:
What about city fire departments, then? City firefighters are exposed not only to burning wood and vegetation burned particles but also airborne chemical residues.
They wear oxygen tanks. Is that practical for wildland fire fighters on a large scale? From my perspective, humans have been wrongfully trying to put out fires for the last 100 years, and at the same time, humans have been moving into the wildland urban interface at alarming rates. Somethings got to give at some point.

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Snowshovel
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 3:34 pm 
Not O2 but air, remember Apollo 1?

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gb
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 5:48 pm 
altasnob wrote:
gb wrote:
What about city fire departments, then? City firefighters are exposed not only to burning wood and vegetation burned particles but also airborne chemical residues.
From my perspective, humans have been wrongfully trying to put out fires for the last 100 years, and at the same time, humans have been moving into the wildland urban interface at alarming rates. Somethings got to give at some point.
From my perspective you are stuck in the dark ages and don't have a clue about climate and 21st century wildfires. It took two minutes to confirm one such study that details limited work done thus far, but also points in the direction of future studies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6743728/ The smart money is to minimize exposure when things are bad.

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treeswarper
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PostThu Sep 22, 2022 5:59 pm 
altasnob wrote:
gb wrote:
What about city fire departments, then? City firefighters are exposed not only to burning wood and vegetation burned particles but also airborne chemical residues.
They wear oxygen tanks. Is that practical for wildland fire fighters on a large scale? From my perspective, humans have been wrongfully trying to put out fires for the last 100 years, and at the same time, humans have been moving into the wildland urban interface at alarming rates. Somethings got to give at some point.
I haven't read the article yet, but it isn't just people living out in the sticks. Smoke moves where the wind takes it. Didn't you folks just get smoked a bit? Do you consider Seattle to be the wildland urban interface now? How long does a tank of air last? We're talking 12 hour or even more shifts on fires. How many tanks? How much weight? Logistics? The smoke is much worse than it has been in the past. The politicians are too busy fighting each other and trying to get re-elected. I can see no answers to any big problem until those folks grow up.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Eric Hansen
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Eric Hansen
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PostMon Sep 26, 2022 6:17 am 
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Pyrites
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PostMon Sep 26, 2022 7:01 am 
Just highly filtered & dried, air, at about 4,500 psi in cylinder to start. At just larger structure fires supplying filled cylinders to FF’s needing new cylinders can become a significant part of the operation, particularly aloft in unsprinklered high rise. And these all come with nice paved streets. You can’t add 45 pounds of SCBA to wildland FF’s kit, to supply them maybe 25 minutes of air. A lot of the time wildland FF’s spend bent over. The wildland folks also need to see too much to accept the loss of even some peripheral vision. The USFS out of the Missoula research station has done considerable work evaluating wildland FF exposure. They’ve also tried battery powered air filter systems for wildland FF’s. It’s effectiveness of systems and lack of ability to work while wearing them that has prevented use, not cost.

Keep Calm and Carry On? Heck No. Stay Excited and Get Outside!
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treeswarper
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PostMon Sep 26, 2022 9:59 am 
I do know that timber layout crews in the ash from the St. Helens eruption, were issued respirators. The respirators came off quickly because breathing was too difficult on the rough ground. The standard wear for smoke on the fireline is a bandana and from what is seen coming out of noses and throats, a bandana is not effective. There's more than smoke. A lot of dust is kicked up too. The talcum poofy stuff referred to as moondust is also unpleasant to inhale.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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