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Waterman
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PostTue Nov 22, 2022 3:15 pm 
Rather than reading this theard in its entirety to answer a question I have, I will just ask. Is there a program that involves hasserment or hazing of wolfs to prevent conflicts with livestock? Either contractors or volunteers. Seems like a person in the area with the sole propose of running interference may be a solution.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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Ski
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PostTue Nov 22, 2022 3:38 pm 
Yes, there are multiple "programs" in place, some of which involve humans. They've tried flashing lights, "fladry" (strips of reflective material hanging on fence lines), and sound (think: FBI vs. David Koresh) They employ "range riders" to ride horses (or ATV's) and patrol the areas cattle are grazing. The range riders are paid (at least in part) by the State. The efficacy of those practices can be argued. The fact that men with large dogs have been watching herds of sheep for millennia is certainly not lost, but wolves are pretty wily creatures - their survival depends upon their creativity. I've resolved that nobody on either side of the issue will ever be completely happy, which is the way of most things anyway. I would just rather see the money we're spending go toward something which is actually constructive, like public education. Wolves is like owning a boat: a bottomless money pit. Monitor them, trap them, collar them, monitor them, and then shoot them when they behave like wolves. Wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseam. (* the wolf kill numbers are in that last URL I cited just above. ) The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. We could really make better use of the money and manpower. Hope you have good light to pore over those maps while it's raining. wink.gif

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Waterman
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PostWed Nov 23, 2022 7:13 am 
It seems like hazing of wolf's would be something I would volunteer for, that is if such a program exists. My upcoming retirement will afford me the luxury of volunteer work. I do need strong light for map reading. Especially for the green trails those and a large magnifying glass. The maps of the longbeach area are of of special interest. Thanks for your generosity in passing on that large collection maps.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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treeswarper
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PostWed Nov 23, 2022 7:32 am 
Then you should talk to the game department instead of a discussion group. I'm assuming you live in the Puget Sound megalopolis? Can you handle living in an uber conservative tight knit community where most of the residents don't like wolves? Where you may find that there is "nothing" to do? Where there is poverty with a view? The Spokesman Review had a huge article on range riders. There may be a link to it somewhere in this thread. Can you ride an ATV or a horse? Can you fix fences? Move cows? Talk to people who are carrying guns? Lots of stuff to think about if you even can volunteer.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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Waterman
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PostWed Nov 23, 2022 8:40 am 
I have found that the people who use this site have a wealth of information to share. Its only recently that I have given any thought to volunteer opportunities. Thanks for suggesting Spokesman Review.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,I took the one less traveled by. And that has made all the difference. Robert Frost
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Ski
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PostWed Nov 23, 2022 9:24 am 
Waterman - The Spokesman-Review article treeswarper is referring to concerned a man who was in the employ of WDFW, but apparently wasn't a real genius when it came to record keeping. There was an investigation of his less than ethical business practices. Not sure what became of that. You would want to contact WDFW regarding opportunities for range riders. The Long Beach area is kind of interesting. Made several trips over to Long Island. That "Ellsworth Unit" which is currently owned and administered by The Nature Conservancy was also an area of great interest. Most of my time in the Willapa Hills was on blackberry hunting missions.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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treeswarper
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PostWed Nov 23, 2022 12:52 pm 
Ski wrote:
he Spokesman-Review article treeswarper is referring to concerned a man who was in the employ of WDFW, but apparently wasn't a real genius when it came to record keeping. There was an investigation of his less than ethical business practices. Not sure what became of that.
It seems to me that they also had quite an article about the actual job of legitimate range riders. That's where fixing fences, moving cows, etc. came from. Cows, deer, elk can break fences and that is a constant job to keep the fences intact. Oh well, there are a zillion articles on range riders, pick the one you want.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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cdestroyer
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PostSat Oct 21, 2023 2:00 pm 
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timberghost
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PostTue Oct 24, 2023 10:46 am 
Montana does a good job trying to keep the population in check

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bgs8379
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PostTue Oct 24, 2023 5:21 pm 
The Cougar and Wolf are out of control in the Chiwawa game unit. Ask any hunter up there.

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Sculpin
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PostThu Oct 26, 2023 6:33 am 
bgs8379 wrote:
The Cougar and Wolf are out of control in the Chiwawa game unit
I skimmed through this document but did not notice anything unusual happening with deer in Chiwawa unit 245: https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02367/wdfw02367.pdf Control is based upon male/female ratios, so management keeps everything flat. I did learn these interesting facts: 1. Hunting is the main source of mortality for cougar populations across Washington. 2. Percent female harvest currently averages approximately 54% annually. Based upon Figure 4 in the referenced document, it is unusual for a cougar to live past four years old in Washington. They get shot by hunters before that happens. No doubt there are some wily older animals out there, but it would be extremely rare for a cougar to die of old age here. It's possible that none of this reflects changes in deer behavior caused by wolves that make deer harder to find, so I would be interested in any "boots on the ground" observations you might have.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
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cdestroyer
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PostFri Oct 27, 2023 6:21 am 
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timberghost
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PostThu Jan 25, 2024 5:36 am 
Occurrences increasing. A German Sheppard up Texas creek in the Methow Valley was killed by a pack of wolves during the day time while the owner was away. WDFW was called to investigate finding only dogs head and feet left. Owner was told she could shoot the wolf/wolves if she was protecting her pet. Seems a little late now https://pd20.communitydashboard.info:8000/DFW/Mapping

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Malachai Constant
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PostThu Jan 25, 2024 7:03 am 
Wolves would be a nice addition to our dystopian future.

"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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jinx'sboy
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PostThu Jan 25, 2024 6:17 pm 
Article in MV News this week: “WDFW must develop new rules for wolf kills” https://methowvalleynews.com/2024/01/25/wdfw-must-develop-new-rules-for-wolf-kills/ I haven’t seen this story elsewhere.

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