Forum Index > Trail Talk > Road to Paradise closed?
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
Bruce Albert
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 160 | TRs | Pics
Bruce Albert
Member
PostThu Dec 22, 2022 10:37 pm 
vogtski wrote:
Seems to me it might be useful to document how Mount Rainier used to be.
Fascinating set of recollections, thank you, and a look at how much better things might be for the visitor, maybe with some more money, but also with a different outlook on the mission. There is so much in your post that doesn't happen any more...but could. I remember the funky old plows and found it interesting to learn what they ran on a regular basis. I had forgotten they ran a V plow. Truck mounted snow blowers are the contraptions for which the phrase "two is one, one is none" was coined. Much midnight oil is burned keeping those pigs running, and little can evoke as much resigned frustration as a truck chain wrapped up in the reel at 3 o'clock in the morning. A volunteeer gig at Paradise must have been a good time for a time and a ski tourer's dream as was my Baker gig; the low wage apparently did not drive you off?

vogtski, williswall
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
vogtski
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2022
Posts: 47 | TRs | Pics
Location: Waitgate WA
vogtski
Member
PostWed Dec 28, 2022 5:50 pm 
Bruce Albert wrote:
A volunteeer gig at Paradise must have been a good time for a time and a ski tourer's dream as was my Baker gig; the low wage apparently did not drive you of
Yes, it was a life-changing gig. 'Powerline' was a unique tour, but more work than fun, really. The routine was actually better. The plow drivers would drop me & skis off at the old Saucer loading dock, which the rangers usually had finished clearing of rime & drifts. I'd drag out the barricades to set up behind them as the plows worked the main lot. Next was to boot up to the analog weather station with a notebook & spare tube, record the data, and carry down the water equivalent cylinder to the Vc to melt & record that. This was all long before our current luxurious telemetry. I don't think there was an NWAC then, but I would next call Rich Mariott with the data (UW?). He would often ask specific questions, usually about wind and snow settlement or any avy observations. Great guy, willing most days to slip in a brief lesson for a rookie! Sometimes there were more chores as the pilgrims began to arrive, but most often my assignment was to grab a radio & go. These were about the size & weight of a brick and were barely dependable line-of-sight only. At times, Rick Kirschner (RIP) the lead ranger would want a specific area checked or hung out in, but usually I was free to follow my nose. I began a lifelong study of where & when the snow was good, and why. At least for pins & grip-waxed Bonna 2400s ;o) I had seen Rainier for the first time accompanying my girlfriend to her seasonal job as one of the very first backcountry no-fee permit clerks the summer before. They had previously just used sign-in logs at each trailhead. I went to Longmire HQ (this was before most of the hindquarters moved to Tahoma Woods.) every morning saying 'Still here if you need anybody... ' After about a week, the gruff old Chief of Maintenance said 'Might have sumpin' fer ya'. We walked all over the maintenance yard until he found a tough-looking smallish sort drinking coffee at the auto shop. The CM said 'Got a new man fer ya!' Lynn O'Donnell the Trail Foreman, replied 'Don't need him!' I later watched him drop a big misbehaving mule in it's tracks with a single uppercut! Turned out I was a last minute replacement for Tom Erlichmann, a popular multi-season laborer who'd decided to stay back east and help his Dad through a rough summer. Hiring corruption then was national, rather than today's still widespread, but more localized cronyism & nepotism. I'd been making $2.50 hour building plywood ski hutches around Nederland. Trail crew here paid almost five bucks an hour then. After a wonderful six months of adventure, I discovered I could get free housing in the Longmire bunkhouse by volunteering 32 hours per week. Sally went back to dental school in Colorado; I never really left... And that has made all the difference... So that's the story of how Watergate changed my life. I didn't mind that the 32-hour volunteer weeks were sometimes twice that; there were some fringe benefits, if no wages. I had easy shuttle options and keys. Ability to bivy at Narada & Paradise, plus use the backcountry patrol cabins on off days. By the second winter, I had discovered the new Karhu 'XCD', an early plastic ski with fulll metal edges and a bit of sidecut, soon joined by a 'fishscale' version. Also learned to tele from the photos in Steve Barnett's XC Downhill. One of the RMI guides bought me a pair of long Austrian mohair downhill skins on his trip to the Alps. I cut off their attachments, sliced them in half lengthwise, and sewed on webbing loops and a strip of velcro for the tails. Bingo! two sets of XC climbing skins! Some of the rangers soon copied. and my comfort zone & aspirations widened. Lou Whittaker & Ingrid took me down Nisqually Glacier from Glacier Vista, then the rangers had to try that. There was lots of crashing and kick-turning, but all agreed it was the most exciting ski tour they'd ever done. Paradise Glacier from Anvil Rock became my personal favorite when you could still ski through part of the famous Ice Caves; the rangers teased me about living at Cowlitz Rock, but hey, it had great park radio reception. Highlights of my over 2000 lifetime ski days in MRNP include racing the young waist-high Hummel twins down Devils Dip (and losing!), endless snowy days in the secret Mazama glades, North face of Foss, Tatoosh Traverse, and 'Dream Bowl'. My longest day-trip ever was Cowlitz Glacier to its terminus, returning to Reflection & Narada via Fan Lake and Stevens Ridge. Also the 3rd ski Orbital with RMI. Perhaps the very best memory is a dazzling full moon and perfect powder, lapping Mt Ararat all night long while staying at Indian Henry's Patrol cabin. Breaks my heart that coming generations may not have such opportunities...

Diagonally parked in a parallel universe

Bruce Albert, jaysway, ChinookPass, gb, grannyhiker, Bramble_Scramble, zimmertr, reststep, GeoTom, Carbonj  chilge
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
grannyhiker
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 3516 | TRs | Pics
Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge
grannyhiker
Member
PostThu Dec 29, 2022 1:07 am 
Wonderful account! Fascinating reading! Thank you!

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view.--E.Abbey
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bruce Albert
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 160 | TRs | Pics
Bruce Albert
Member
PostThu Dec 29, 2022 3:27 pm 
vogtski wrote:
Perhaps the very best memory is a dazzling full moon and perfect powder, lapping Mt Ararat all night long while staying at Indian Henry's Patrol cabin.
This. A fascinating and compelling account, thank you. Indian Henry's, Thanksgiving weekend, 1975:
Van Trump, New Year's weekend, 1976:
"Ghosts of my history will follow me there And the winds of the old days will blow through my hair."

Carbonj, vogtski, jaysway, chilge, rossb, zimmertr
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
cascadeclimber
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
cascadeclimber
Member
PostFri Dec 30, 2022 6:57 pm 
Randito wrote:
I wonder how many of the Monday morning quarterbacks on this thread have ever managed an organization with more than 50 people.
More than have been hired as a National Park Superintendent, who I'd like to believe has the skills to, you know, be the superintendent of a National Park. Skills which I believe should include making the park accessible to the general public most of the time. And I bet more than a couple here could find a way to open the damn road more than once a week (on average) this winter.

If not now, when?
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
vogtski
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2022
Posts: 47 | TRs | Pics
Location: Waitgate WA
vogtski
Member
PostTue Jan 03, 2023 7:24 am 
Bruce Albert wrote:
And I still wanna know what the 100 people on staff do all day, every day. I understand that there are going to be lots of people, useful people that, like in a ski area, the casual eye doesn't see or know exist. There will be HR, AP, water treatment, wastewater treatment, building maintenance, motor pool, and a host of others that are not expendable, plus God knows how many tiers of managers and assistants-to.
You forgot the deputy assistants ;o) Only a few years ago Rainier's NPS website was claiming 160 'full-time equivalents'. My spies explained there were often shorter-term planning teams that worked on regional problems like transit and also assisting nearby small NPS units. I thought that's what the top-heavy Regional Offices did, but I guess now they just beg DC for money. "This interdisciplinary effort will result in a structured decision-support tool to help park and program managers evaluate the risks posed by coastal hazards when considering investments in coastal assets like lighthouses, historic buildings, visitor centers, park housing, roadways, and utility systems," he added. "Tool development is being co-led by superintendents of coastal parks and supported by decision-support scientists from the United States Geological Survey." https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2023/01/climate-changes-grip-national-park-system I'm not sure what the current cast is, but Rainier formerly had a stable of maybe twenty scientific types, who I'm sure did great work behind the Westside Road gates in what locals call 'The Country Club'. Somebody please explain to this poor geezer what is a "decision-support scientist"?

Diagonally parked in a parallel universe

mosey, Bruce Albert
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bruce Albert
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 160 | TRs | Pics
Bruce Albert
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 11:13 am 
vogtski wrote:
You forgot the deputy assistants ;o)
Hah! I don't think the NPS has a monopoly on this at all, though. One source of repeated hilarity during ownership changes at Stevens was watching the mad scramble of various tiers of managers to ingratiete themselves with the new bosses so they could keep on polishing chairs, attending meetings, formatting their Excel sheets, maximizing their bonuses, and 'assessing' things. Oh, and on good days popping out of the office for first tracks ahead of the waiting public. Over in the other corner was/is the shrinking number of people actually making the area run.
vogtski wrote:
I'm not sure what the current cast is, but Rainier formerly had a stable of maybe twenty scientific types, who I'm sure did great work behind the Westside Road gates in what locals call 'The Country Club'.
Reading between the lines just a little, that's what I have long suspected, that the West Side is Animal Farm exemplified: some animals are more equal than others, and the more equal ones just happing to be wearing NPS uniforms. I understand that all trips are not for all people and all that, but I mourn the loss of reasonably easy day access to Klapatche and St. Andrews to the general public.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
kiliki
Member
Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 2310 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
kiliki
Member
PostWed Jan 04, 2023 2:37 pm 
Quote:
I thought that's what the top-heavy Regional Offices did
Regional offices are skeleton crews these days. The physical space and staff have shrunk massively. Generally when someone has retired in the last 10-20 years, their position is not filled.

vogtski
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
philfort
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 437 | TRs | Pics
Location: seattle
philfort
Member
PostFri Jan 06, 2023 10:23 am 
Quote:
Join park superintendent Greg Dudgeon for an informal hour of discussion of the opportunities and challenges of overseeing one of the most dynamic and popular national parks in the United States. 2 pm, Friday, 1/13/23 at the Longmire National Park Inn
https://twitter.com/MountRainierNPS/status/1611410343020081152?s=20&t=L8Z-InAFR-8G5BbYbMkKmw

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
cascadeclimber
Member
Member


Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1427 | TRs | Pics
cascadeclimber
Member
PostFri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 am 
"I made the decision to hold the public meetings in Ashford and Enumclaw. Ashford businesses are those most directly affected by winter access to the park; many mid-week park users in winter are local residents. As I stated clearly during the meetings, the intent of the meetings was not to seek public input....I didn't like having to close the Longmire gate two days a week, and didn't expect anyone else to like it either...the intent was, rather, to explain the reasons for my decision. I'll follow your suggestion to hold additional public meetings in Tacoma and Seattle if similar circumstances arise in the future. The meeting times in Ashford and Enumclaw were set based on prior experience and feedback from the communities. Regards, -Randy" This from an email exchange with then-superintendent Randy King when he pulled a similar closure stunt in 2013.

If not now, when?
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
vogtski
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2022
Posts: 47 | TRs | Pics
Location: Waitgate WA
vogtski
Member
PostFri Jan 06, 2023 5:31 pm 
kiliki wrote:
Regional offices are skeleton crews these days. The physical space and staff have shrunk massively. Generally when someone has retired in the last 10-20 years, their position is not filled.
Thanks for the correction! Those 70's rangers claimed half the NPS annual appropriation never made it out of DC or past the various Regional Offices to the actual parks, tho at least some of them were not above seeking promotion there. Perhaps the loss of those career opportunities is connected to the current more rapid management turnover?

Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
bullfrog
Member
Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 82 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle
bullfrog
Member
PostSun Jan 08, 2023 9:11 am 
Big article in the Sunday Seattle Times about the road closure: https://www.seattletimes.com/life/outdoors/paradise-lost-angst-mounts-over-mount-rainier-national-park-weekday-closure/ If the paywall is blocking you, here's what the park superintendent says: "Over a month into the closure, park leadership insists it is making strides in the short term and preparing for the long term. “We are leaving no stone unturned in trying to open the road to Paradise more days this winter,” said Mount Rainier National Park Superintendent Greg Dudgeon. “For next winter, we are working proactively now to come up with solutions so this doesn’t happen again.” But I'm concerned that if they can close it this year with little protest, they will continue to do it in the future. Time to contact your senators and representatives.

fourteen410, ChinookPass, vogtski
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6303 | TRs | Pics
gb
Member
PostSun Jan 08, 2023 9:38 am 
bullfrog wrote:
Big article in the Sunday Seattle Times about the road closure: https://www.seattletimes.com/life/outdoors/paradise-lost-angst-mounts-over-mount-rainier-national-park-weekday-closure/ If the paywall is blocking you, here's what the park superintendent says: "Over a month into the closure, park leadership insists it is making strides in the short term and preparing for the long term. “We are leaving no stone unturned in trying to open the road to Paradise more days this winter,” said Mount Rainier National Park Superintendent Greg Dudgeon. “For next winter, we are working proactively now to come up with solutions so this doesn’t happen again.” But I'm concerned that if they can close it this year with little protest, they will continue to do it in the future. Time to contact your senators and representatives.
Totally agree. Only Congress can increase funding for competitive hiring bonuses or for employee lodging subsidies. i cannot imagine that the funds required would be very large.

bullfrog, vogtski
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bruce Albert
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 160 | TRs | Pics
Bruce Albert
Member
PostSun Jan 08, 2023 5:28 pm 
There's some New Math and missing pieces in play here, or maybe just some losses in translation from Dudgeon to reporter to reader, or maybe I'm just a bit thick, but: Wage ranges in the article from @25.xx up to $39.XX vs ranges in the ads reposted above of $19.xx and up Claims in the article that housing is available, vs previous statements above in this thread that it is not. They need 26 people to be open 7 days; they are 13 short including 5 plow crew. What would the other 8 do? Matter of fact, what do the 26 do? I'd love to see a manifest showing budgeted and necessary position, description, GS wage range, seasonal/year round status, and filled/vacant status. Then I (and everyone else)would be able to grasp how things actually stand. The article infers that without the 26, 7 day operation is impossible, meaning I guess that if the custodian calls in sick the whole schmutz goes on hold? Moreover some of the positions mentioned have to function each and every day, road open or not. You can't just flip the switch on your wastewater treatment or water treatment plant off on Sunday night and come back Friday. A lot of that stuff is going on 7 days a week and relying on access to Paradise regardless of road open/closed status. No mention of any consideration of a plan to have the road open 4 or 5 days a week, instead of two or seven, thus maybe meeting their self imposed bare bones requirement and cutting their losses as well. Dare I point out that with 13 supposedly on staff (26-13 remember?), 9 are attending the morning meeting apparently being held well after sunrise on one of the shortest days of the year? Probably gonna be a little late on the road, huh? For the man who is the big dog in the hot seat in the corner office I consider Mr. Dudgeon's liberal use of the word "we" with reference to management decisions to be amusing. But anyway, I agree this is the larger nut of the issue:
bullfrog wrote:
But I'm concerned that if they can close it this year with little protest, they will continue to do it in the future.
This is pretty much what happened over at Cayuse Pass about 50 years ago. Faced with a very heavy winter the WSDOT gave up on keeping it open. Fair enough but they never kept it open or even tried again, thin winter or thick, ever again...just washed their hands and went, "Dude, it's too deep. Something could avalanche." Lord knows where the plowing budget savings, which had to have been considerable, went. Dangerously on the edge of the topic but not horribly so is this: I am constantly bombarded with news that there is a severe and persistent worker shortage in the United States. I am also constantly informed that thousands upon thousands of those whose dreams would be realized by admission to this country to live and work are daily turned away at the border. Is this not absolutely nuts? Why the hell, if we do not have enough of us to do the necessary work, are we not letting people in to help and to realize their dreams as well?

bullfrog, vogtski, Waterman
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
vogtski
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2022
Posts: 47 | TRs | Pics
Location: Waitgate WA
vogtski
Member
PostMon Jan 09, 2023 7:26 am 
Bruce Albert wrote:
They need 26 people to be open 7 days; they are 13 short including 5 plow crew. What would the other 8 do? Matter of fact, what do the 26 do? I'd love to see a manifest showing budgeted and necessary position, description, GS wage range, seasonal/year round status, and filled/vacant status. Then I (and everyone else)would be able to grasp how things actually stand.
Good questions! Given the overall lack of NPS financial transparency, I'm surprised even the info you cited was released, but baby steps are better than nothing, I suppose. Based on their complaints in previous press releases, here's my guess for those eight: 2 EMTs, 1 avalanche evaluator, 4 law enforcement (2 pairs of 2 each shift), and 1 LE supervisor. Speaking of big dogs, Dudgeon's costume in his press release redlines my 'poser-meter'. I'd bet he spent more time in Anchorage than all those remote parks combined: https://mustreadalaska.com/controversial-park-service-supervisor-promoted-to-mount-rainier-park-post/

Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Road to Paradise closed?
  Happy Birthday speyguy, Bandanabraids!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum