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BigBrunyon
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PostSat Nov 19, 2022 11:47 pm 
Problem with these bags is it can explode if you put a MEAT MAIN in there

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sarbar
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 7:24 am 
Eric Hansen wrote:
FWIW, got no idea if these work well, but saw this review last week. https://www.backpacker.com/gear/stoves-cookware/cookware-reviews/this-reusable-ziploc-bag-is-changing-how-i-cook-in-camp/ "This Reusable Ziploc Bag Is Changing How I Cook in Camp Goodbye clunky plastic containers and disposable packaging: This is how I'm rehydrating my meals from now on."
So....they are doing FBC. I'll just giggle a bit. Those kind of bags have been around for years, they work fine. Now having said that, if you cook in them, they need to be cleaned each time. Just make sure they are produced in the US and not China is all. It's why I tell people to buy Ziploc and similar, not off (house) brands, to ensure a clean product.

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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sarbar
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 7:27 am 
BigBrunyon wrote:
Problem with these bags is it can explode if you put a MEAT MAIN in there
A meat main? As in freeze-dried meat? With all bags, be it polyethylene or silicone, you push out the air while you seal it, after adding the hot water. If you have a bag opening up with dried goods in it.....you have other issues. Rolling up bags with dried food, like a burrito, pushes out air. A bag should not fill up with air dry, or explode from steam. If so....there's other issues going on. I have used 1000's of bags over the years for recipe development, including various silicone bags sent to me for reviewing. confused.gif

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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RumiDude
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 3:35 pm 
When I worked on a lot of WTA BCRTs, I knew several people that used the silicon ziplocks to rehydrate their meals. They would use one silicon ziplock and clean it after every use. In my mind, one may as well just cook in the pot and clean the pot. But either way, you still have to bring your food in something. So you have to decide what you are going to bring it in originally and are you then going to save them for cleaning back home and reuse or what? For an overnighter you could just accept the weight penalty of the silicon bags, but for anything much longer than that then you are likely not going to want to bring lots of relatively heavy silicon bags of food. Well at least I wouldn't. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

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Randito
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 9:01 pm 
This article compares the carbon footprint of single iluse plastic shopping bags to durable cotton shopping bags https://medium.com/climate-conscious/should-you-swap-plastic-bags-for-tote-bags-to-reduce-your-impact-3f2daf1dacc2 The carbon footprint of the durable cotton bag is 172 times of the plastic bag. So I think in looking for alternatives to Ziploc bags you have to consider was the total environmental impact of each option and not just adopt an alternative because it is an alternative. No matter what storage method is used appropriate disposal at end of service is essential. Plastic bags dumped in the ocean can have a deadly effect of wildlife, but a plastic bag disposed in a properly operated landfill has minimal negative effect on wildlife.

RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostSun Dec 18, 2022 10:55 pm 
Randito wrote:
This article compares the carbon footprint of single iluse plastic shopping bags to durable cotton shopping bags https://medium.com/climate-conscious/should-you-swap-plastic-bags-for-tote-bags-to-reduce-your-impact-3f2daf1dacc2 The carbon footprint of the durable cotton bag is 172 times of the plastic bag.
From the article: "The study estimated that a cotton tote bag’s total carbon footprint was 598.6lb of CO2e. This compared to 3.48lb of CO2e for a standard plastic bag. That means that you would need to use the tote bag 172 times for every 1 time you used the plastic bag. This is mostly due to the resources needed to grow the cotton for the bag, including energy, water, and fertilisers. Plastic, on the other hand, is a by-product of the oil industry, and so requires no new resources to produce. This, in itself, points to the issue with this study, though. It centers around the carbon footprint of the bag, but doesn’t incorporate the impact of the oil industry which plastic is a part of, or factors like the contribution to land and marine pollution. So, I would recommend taking these statistics with a pinch of salt, but they do serve as a useful reminder to think about the whole picture of supposedly eco-friendly items." The carbon footprint is just one aspect in trying to determine environmental impact of things. It is an important one but there are others as well. The main issue with plastics is the permanent harm to the environment. Anyway, there is not a perfect solution to any of this, but like LNT, it is a way to move towards a smaller impact by our activities. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Randito
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PostMon Dec 19, 2022 6:24 am 
RumiDude wrote:
Anyway, there is not a perfect solution to any of this, but like LNT, it is a way to move towards a smaller impact by our activities.
Is it though? That's the point, choosing an alternative simply because it is an alternative doesn't mean it's actually better for the environment. If one reuses a standard ziploc bag 5 times but say a silicone bag 50 , but the silicone bag requires 30 times the resources to produce it isn't really better enviromentally. It's complex to completely evaluate the environmental impact of any particular object. The marketing of "environmentally friendly" products do have a history of "greenwashing" where claims of being better for the environment are just claims with no research behind it.

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RumiDude
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PostMon Dec 19, 2022 8:12 am 
Randito wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
Anyway, there is not a perfect solution to any of this, but like LNT, it is a way to move towards a smaller impact by our activities.
Is it though? That's the point, choosing an alternative simply because it is an alternative doesn't mean it's actually better for the environment. If one reuses a standard ziploc bag 5 times but say a silicone bag 50 , but the silicone bag requires 30 times the resources to produce it isn't really better enviromentally.
My point is that calculating the resources to produce something is only part of the picture. We also need to calculate the costs of the entire lifecycle of this stuff. Silicone is considered much more environmentally friendly than are plastics, though the research is woefully incomplete on such things. But we do know that plastics are really bad for the environment. The argument against plastics has never been about it's carbon footprint, but about it's long-term effect on the environment. When it comes to the environment, "the market" (in the economic sense) does not work well at all. Yet industry has decided to shift that responsibility to individual consumers rather than risk governmental regulation. But that is a discussion for another thread. *bigstirthepotgrins* Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."

Navy salad
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Randito
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PostMon Dec 19, 2022 8:16 am 
RumiDude wrote:
Silicone is considered much more environmentally friendly than are plastics
Interesting, why is this the case? Is it the process resources needed for its manufacture? Or something else? I'm curious to understand.

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BigBrunyon
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PostFri Dec 23, 2022 12:24 am 
A MEAT MAIN is a main meal that is mostly meat, A term you're hearing more and more these days.

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sarbar
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PostWed Jan 04, 2023 12:51 pm 
In theory silicone is better, but....and there's always a big but....in recent years there has come more questions about it. And as always, where it is made is more important. Is your silicone made in the US? It's like using brand name Ziploc versus using off brand. You want US made always, never ever from China. Problem is, some, if not most, of the silicone bags are not US made. This could change though. For example, the Ziploc brand Endurables are made in Thailand. Is that OK? Well....having had worked for years for a Thai importer I cannot say it is. In Thailand food manafacturers pay the gov't for a label, so they can export food/items to the US. It is an agreement they will abide by certain standards (the logo is easy to see on items btw). But it doesn't mean they do. And this is pure manafacturing, not food. So buyer beware. You have no gurantee they are actually what they say they are. At the end of the day though, most people don't use many Ziploc freezer bags in their hiking time. The gas they use to get to the trail is far more concerning.

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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sarbar
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sarbar
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PostWed Jan 04, 2023 12:55 pm 
Randito wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
Silicone is considered much more environmentally friendly than are plastics
Interesting, why is this the case? Is it the process resources needed for its manufacture? Or something else? I'm curious to understand.
Silicon is a natural chemical element, silicone is a man-made product. People get this messed up easily. What we buy from bags to sex toys is a synthetic mix. It really isn't better than petroleum based plastics. Even though they will tell you it is made from sand. Silicone also uses methanol, derived from natural gas. huh.gif

https://trailcooking.com/ Eat well on the trail.
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RumiDude
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PostMon Jan 30, 2023 1:16 pm 
Randito wrote:
RumiDude wrote:
Silicone is considered much more environmentally friendly than are plastics
Interesting, why is this the case? Is it the process resources needed for its manufacture? Or something else? I'm curious to understand.
Here is deeeeep dive on the subject which you may find interesting. Lots of information tangential to your question but you strike me as a likely fellow nerd so you may actually enjoy it. Sorry I only have the link right now but I am using my phone and I don't know how to embed videos with it. Maybe when I get home I will edit it to be embedded. Anyway ...
Rumi EDIT: Looks like it embedded just fine.

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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Downhill
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PostFri Feb 03, 2023 6:54 pm 
Y'all probably already know this, but you can turn ziplock bags inside-out, put 'em on the top rack of your dishwasher and they come out good as new.

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RumiDude
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PostSun Feb 05, 2023 10:20 am 
Downhill wrote:
Y'all probably already know this, but you can turn ziplock bags inside-out, put 'em on the top rack of your dishwasher and they come out good as new.
My experience is that Ziplocks deteriorate rather quickly. I tried washing and reusing them and it was not only a PITA, but used Ziplocks had a failure rate much higher than acceptable. YMMV Additionally, there was no good way to keep track of how many times they were reused. In theory reusing Ziplocks is a good idea, but in practice it is is impractical and kinda defeats the entire convenience of having a single use cheap storage bag. And this especially applies to using them on backpacking trips and freezer bag cooking techniques. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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