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Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostThu Mar 02, 2023 3:52 pm 
kiliki wrote:
there are concessioner-guided backpacking tours at Rainier that use backcountry sites
Those sites should be open to everybody, right?

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hbb
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PostThu Mar 02, 2023 4:09 pm 
kiliki wrote:
But there are concessioner-guided backpacking tours at Rainier that use backcountry sites. Here are just a couple I snagged from a random Google. https://www.miyaradventures.com/trip/rainier-4-day-backpacking/ https://www.kafadventures.com/hiking-backpacking/mt-rainier-backpacking-yoga/
Both of those examples are companies that have Commercial Use Authorizations. Pursuant to the the 2005 Commercial Services Plan, the park accepts applications for up to 5 entities to conduct a single backpacking trip of up to 5 nights, so it's pretty limited. The available camps are limited to designated group sites Mon-Fri nights. Also, the West side of Rainier from 6,000' to 13,500 and the bulk of the Tattosh range and the Stevens Canyon Road corridor are Commerical-Free zones. I get your concern, but unless you want to reserve a group site midweek in an area outside the Commercial-Free Zones, these guided backpacking trips have no impact on campsite availability.

jaysway, kiliki
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hbb
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PostThu Mar 02, 2023 4:22 pm 
hikingpersonnw wrote:
However, there were several sites reserved for some type of trail run that was going on. They had support vans and some canopies setup. They were respectful and good campmates, but it was a bit odd to see them getting reserved sites. I am not sure how it works but maybe with their special use permit, they also have the option of getting reserved sites.
White River is still first-come first-served, even for entities with a Commercial Use Authorization. The only campgrounds CUA holders can reserve in advance are group sites at Cougar Rock and Ohanapecosh Sun-Thurs, and they are still competing with the public for reservations.

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hikingpersonnw
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PostFri Mar 03, 2023 10:02 am 
hbb wrote:
White River is still first-come first-served, even for entities with a Commercial Use Authorization. The only campgrounds CUA holders can reserve in advance are group sites at Cougar Rock and Ohanapecosh Sun-Thurs, and they are still competing with the public for reservations.
FWIW, they had reserved signs on the campsites (the same type that are used for employees, volunteers and associated groups with the NPS logo). I suppose it's possible it was some type of organized ultra run for NPS employees or a volunteer group. In November I saw a sign at White River, that it will no longer be first come first served and switch to reservations. I haven't seen anything update on the website to indicate that, yet.

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JimmyBob
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PostFri Mar 03, 2023 12:06 pm 
hikingpersonnw wrote:
In November I saw a sign at White River, that it will no longer be first come first served and switch to reservations. I haven't seen anything update on the website to indicate that, yet.
Unfortunately the park services think that telling the public about park status/rules via the official park website isn't important to them. They prefer twitter and facebook, which I think is terrible.

uww, vogtski
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Randito
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PostSat Mar 04, 2023 4:28 pm 
JimmyBob wrote:
hikingpersonnw wrote:
In November I saw a sign at White River, that it will no longer be first come first served and switch to reservations. I haven't seen anything update on the website to indicate that, yet.
Unfortunately the park services think that telling the public about park status/rules via the official park website isn't important to them. They prefer twitter and facebook, which I think is terrible.
Based on my experience supporting corporate run websites,, I'm certain that it is far easier and faster for NPS personnel to post updates to Twitter than posting an update on the NPS website. I think that labeling this as "something not important to them" is more an indication of your ignorance of the overhead involved maintaining and updating a "traditional" website such as the NPS website. I see the use of Twitter by NPS personnel as an honest effort by dedicated NPS folks to more effectively and efficiently communicate park conditions to the public and I applaud them for it.

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kiliki
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PostSat Mar 04, 2023 5:31 pm 
Going back to the housing issue, I didn't realize that it was the recently passed LODGE Act that allows the government to lease employee housing outside the park. A lot of NPs are trying this. https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2022/09/lodge-act-could-help-provide-housing-national-park-service-staff (This was written before it passed). It will be interesting to see if it's successful. The co-sponsor from Utah said DOD has been successful doing this outside army bases in Utah, but it's hard for me to imagine the owners of short-term rentals in gateway towns outside national parks taking the lower amounts of a long term rental (plus Airbnbs may not have to meet the same requirements that a government rental does).

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JimmyBob
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PostWed Mar 08, 2023 3:56 pm 
Randito wrote:
I'm certain that it is far easier and faster for NPS personnel to post updates to Twitter than posting an update on the NPS website.
The NPS website should then include that feed directly, it'll go to both/all places automatically.

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uww
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PostThu Mar 09, 2023 2:11 pm 
JimmyBob wrote:
The NPS website should then include that feed directly, it'll go to both/all places automatically.
Agreed, but honestly it should go the other way. It is not difficult to make a 'blog' page that can do simple and fast updated text posts and autoposts to social media.

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Randito
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PostFri Mar 10, 2023 12:26 am 
JimmyBob wrote:
Randito wrote:
I'm certain that it is far easier and faster for NPS personnel to post updates to Twitter than posting an update on the NPS website.
The NPS website should then include that feed directly, it'll go to both/all places automatically.
How many websites have you built and maintained in the course of your career?

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bccarlso
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PostFri Mar 10, 2023 9:10 am 
Has it been super busy up there on weekends?

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peter707
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PostFri Mar 10, 2023 10:09 am 
bccarlso wrote:
Has it been super busy up there on weekends?
On a sunny, warm, 1/5 avalanche danger day, on Saturday 02/11/2023, midway up the snowfield at say 8000', I had a pretty good view and counted people on the snowfield. I counted ~15 people higher, and ~50 people lower on the snowfield, for ~65 people above Panorama Point on the Muir Snowfield. There may be others that I can't see, but I could see at least ~800' up and ~1500' down. 1) about 20 people at Camp muir, approx 19 AT skiers / splitboarders & 1 snowshoer w/ downhill board 2) about 45 people between panorama point and camp muir, that probably turned at some point prior to camp muir 3) while snowboarding down, probably saw ~10-15 people hikers at panorama point at 3pm, they enjoyed glissading down panorama face, many a terrified / joyous yard-sale down that slope. At 3pm at pan point there's no way to make it to Longmire gate by 4pm on foot, so presumably there were even more people here at 12-2pm. Nearly everyone ski/snowboarded down the muir snowfield, although a few folks ski'd the paradise glacier, a few folks ski'd the cowlitz, a few folks ski'd the nisqually glacier. here's a strava segment: https://www.strava.com/segments/28411172?filter=overall, it shows 12 uploaded gpx tracks to Muir on 02/11/2023 or 02/12/2023 although strava segments are not designed for snowfields where people don't all take the same line, it's an underestimate. There may be a different segment each weekend since how the route moves around. https://labs.strava.com/flyby/viewer/#8545601879?c=c236m85d&z=E&t=1ZvzKI&a=V4lb_VBRWf39tln9K8Rk_Tq6ZP09_1r9HZVZ_Q There's probably ~50-100 cars waiting for the gate to open at 9am. Traffic clears quickly once the gate opens and you can probably get to paradise by 9:40am if you are at the gate at 9:10am.

zimmertr, ChinookPass
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bccarlso
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PostFri Mar 10, 2023 10:35 am 
Thanks for the detailed reply! So it sounds like it's not like the summer months when the parking lots are full and you have to circle around for half an hour or more until a spot opens up. I figured with the weekdays closed, it might still be like that in the winter.

Cyclopath, peter707
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peter707
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PostFri Mar 10, 2023 11:09 am 
I would say it's as popular as a ski-tour gets, but no where near average summer visitation of a national park. I don't actually know how full the parking lots got at say, 11am. But I would guess that it's not close to a summer weekend where it's in the thousands. There are days in June/July that I'm snowboarding past 300+ people on the way down from muir, it's not like that when the gate closes at 4pm in the winter. While the muir snowfield is as benign as it gets in terms of a 4500' vertical foot tour [with the exception of the 31-degree panorama face for 1/50th of the vertical gain], it has navigational hazards on probably 75% of winter days. Lots of snowboarding at 3mph while looking at gps watch in a whiteout. The fault line tends to go towards the Nisqually glacier, not the paradise parking lot.

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ranger rock
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ranger rock
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PostTue Mar 14, 2023 9:13 pm 
Is walk in access allowed when the entrance roads are closed?

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