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puzzlr
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puzzlr
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PostWed Mar 22, 2023 10:56 pm 
I got access to Google's Bard AI today. Thought I'd ask a few questions about a place I know. Definitely not smart yet, but very wimpy and apologetic. Bold lines are my prompts.
Quote:
How many mountains surround the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley? The Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley is surrounded by many mountains, including:
  • Iron Horse Mountain
  • McClellan Butte
  • Rattlesnake Mountain
  • Cedar Butte
  • Talus Loop
  • Teneriffe Falls
  • Twin Falls
  • Mt Washington
These mountains offer a variety of hiking and backpacking opportunities. Some of those are waterfalls, not mountains. None of the mountains are in the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley You are correct. I apologize for the error in my previous response. The Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley is not surrounded by any mountains. It is located in the Cascade Mountains, but it is not surrounded by any mountains. Yes it is surrounded by mountains, you just didn't list any of them. Mount Si is one of them. Apologies, you are correct. Mount Si is one of the mountains that surrounds the Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley.

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Cyclopath
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PostThu Mar 23, 2023 10:13 am 
puzzlr wrote:
Definitely not smart yet
Dude, it's predicting which words go together. It doesn't actually have knowledge about the world, it has associations between words and phrases. Just like you wouldn't ask a magic eight ball for marriage advice, LLMs can only give you superficial summaries about anything, and any of those can be hallucinations. The impressive things about these new generative AIs are (1) how incredibly well they use natural human language, and (2) that they can attempt problems outside their domain. When calculators were introduced in the 1960s, people thought it would only be a few years until computers could flawlessly translate between human languages. So far, machine translation has largely been a joke. These new LLMs use language in ways that haven't been possible for computers until now. This is a significant breakthrough.

Josh Journey
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Bootpathguy
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PostThu Mar 23, 2023 9:56 pm 
Cyclopath wrote:
Dude, it's predicting which words go together. It doesn't actually have knowledge about the world
Google Bard AI can't refer to Google Earth? Is this a joke? I agree. Bard is stupid!

Experience is what'cha get, when you get what'cha don't want
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Josh Journey
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Josh Journey
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PostThu Mar 23, 2023 11:15 pm 
Agreed with @Cyclopath. In terms of accuracy/geography they ought to rewrite the algorithms (where relevant) to utilize Google Maps location library instead of 'interpreting text alone'. This way if locations are mentioned or inferred with word choices such as 'surround' it could query Google Maps locations around 'Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley' and utilize the category 'mountains'. The tricky bit is either having a way for AI to decipher if it is indeed a category to utilize such as 'mountain, waterfalls, rivers' or have a user token users could use: How many [mountains] surround the {Middle Fork Snoqualmie Valley}? Brackets could act as a category query, 'surround' activates a radius scope, and curly braces could designate what coordinates (of a specific location) we want to work with. A few simple syntax additions could make it quite intelligent and easy to use.

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Bootpathguy
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 9:44 am 
Josh Journey wrote:
Agreed with @Cyclopath. In terms of accuracy/geography they ought to rewrite the algorithms (where relevant) to utilize Google Maps location library instead of 'interpreting text alone'.
Bard gave completely wrong answers to Puzzlr and probably lots of other folks about geography questions who now believe the answers that received are, true! Why not rewrite the algo's so that Barts answers regarding geography are, "I don't know"

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 10:23 am 
Bootpathguy wrote:
Cyclopath wrote:
Dude, it's predicting which words go together. It doesn't actually have knowledge about the world
Google Bard AI can't refer to Google Earth? Is this a joke?
I assume you're trolling, but I can't be sure because a lot of people think it really does work like this.
Josh Journey wrote:
The tricky bit is either having a way for AI to decipher if it is indeed a category to utilize such as 'mountain, waterfalls, rivers' or have a user token users could use:
For thousands of years, nobody knew what hieroglyphics meant. We knew they were detailed written knowledge, but we didn't know what they said. The information was in a format we couldn't access. (Then somebody found The Rosetta Stone, and people eventually figured out how to read them.) Google Maps is a format language models can't read. That information isn't available to them. This is a problem they're not intended to solve, like my car can get me to the trailhead but it can't make a latte. Of course AI is changing fast.

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 10:24 am 
Bootpathguy wrote:
Why not rewrite the algo's so that Barts answers regarding geography are, "I don't know"
This is the same question as why don't hikers walk indoors, especially in the winter when there's heat? The answer is because that's obviously not the point.

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neek
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 11:08 am 
It was programmed by guys, so is incapable of saying "I don't know" or asking for directions.

zimmertr, Bootpathguy, Jumble Jowls
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 3:18 pm 
neek wrote:
It was programmed by guys, so is incapable of saying "I don't know" or asking for directions.
hihi.gif As an aging guy, I've learned to say "I don't know" when I don't. But don't expect a multiple six-figure engineer at Microsoft or Google to ever admit that.

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puzzlr
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puzzlr
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 5:36 pm 
Cyclopath wrote
Quote:
When calculators were introduced in the 1960s, people thought it would only be a few years until computers could flawlessly translate between human languages.
I have tried to keep up with LLMs and how they work. My post was a reaction to how I hear people extrapolating wildly about what they could do, similar to what happened as in your quote above. I know it's still early days for these kinds of AI, but if they continue to not understand the meaning of the words they're spewing out and it's essentially a probabilistic sequence of text then it limits their usefulness for me. I'm not trying to fool an english professor by having AI write a book report for me.

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 9:06 pm 
puzzlr wrote:
I'm not trying to fool an english professor by having AI write a book report for me.
I've heard they're "watermarking" the text they generate now so the professor can check whether the AI wrote it. smile.gif The math behind how that works is fascinating. ChatGPT and other generative AIs use randomness in their responses, the way ChatGPT does that now betrays its handiwork.

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Cyclopath
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PostFri Mar 24, 2023 9:28 pm 
They're hooking ChatGPT up to Wolfram Alpha so that it can access knowledge.
That seems like essentially the same problem as the peaks of the MFK.
These are questions it couldn't answer correctly in January.

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Cyclopath
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PostTue Mar 28, 2023 9:50 am 
This is scary. In one case, an executive cut and pasted the firm's 2023 strategy document into ChatGPT and asked it to create a PowerPoint deck. In another case, a doctor input his patient's name and their medical condition and asked ChatGPT to craft a letter to the patient's insurance company. https://www.darkreading.com/risk/employees-feeding-sensitive-business-data-chatgpt-raising-security-fears People are stupid.

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Josh Journey
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Josh Journey
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PostTue Mar 28, 2023 10:55 am 
Cyclopath wrote:
Josh Journey wrote:
The tricky bit is either having a way for AI to decipher if it is indeed a category to utilize such as 'mountain, waterfalls, rivers' or have a user token users could use:
For thousands of years, nobody knew what hieroglyphics meant. We knew they were detailed written knowledge, but we didn't know what they said. The information was in a format we couldn't access. (Then somebody found The Rosetta Stone, and people eventually figured out how to read them.) Google Maps is a format language models can't read. That information isn't available to them. This is a problem they're not intended to solve, like my car can get me to the trailhead but it can't make a latte. Of course AI is changing fast.
When I mentioned 'Google Maps location library', I should have specified the usage of Geo Coding Service which converts your 'location search' to a JSON string pulled from Google's Geo Coding service. Google Maps already has millions of named drawn polygons publicly available. In other words the region association already exists, it just needs to be utilized by AI. Or query nearby the coordinates of the searched location. If simple scripts can pull up the data, surely an intelligent program can? https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/290972/google-maps-is-it-possible-to-draw-a-polygon-and-retrieve-all-street-names-wit It's just a matter of putting filters in the right places and making the AI able to discern when to apply specific searches with it's input. Rather than having complex sophistication to 'figure out if it's a mountain', there already exists simple queries that get the precise results we want: https://www.google.com/maps/search/mountains/@47.5075584,-121.6006197,12z/data=!3m1!4b1 And if we wanted to fine tune it, the AI could have simple conditionals that add interface buttons such as 'limit within 10 miles' so that we don't go outside the bounds. I've programmed something like this with JavaScript. Super easy to make and use. The tricky bit is manually creating these suggest triggers for many scenarios. They can be layered in a way that not only trigger where needed to reduce load, be relevant, and be easily maintainable by programmers.

Cyclopath
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Cyclopath
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PostTue Mar 28, 2023 6:23 pm 
Josh Journey wrote:
Geo Coding Service which converts your 'location search' to a JSON string pulled from Google's Geo Coding service.
Didn't know this existed. I owe you a beer. cheers.gif

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