Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Wolves need our help NOW!
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 1307 | TRs | Pics
timberghost
Member
PostThu Feb 01, 2024 11:01 am 
The wolves are going to need our help when the Ungulate population is wiped out. We will need a feeding station for them. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/yellowstone-elk-numbers-decline-park-190000284.html

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 12753 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostFri Feb 02, 2024 4:09 pm 
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife February 2, 2024 The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) announced on Feb. 2, 2024 a not-warranted finding (https://www.fws.gov/press-release/2024-02/service-announces-gray-wolf-finding-and-national-recovery-plan) for two petitions to list gray wolves under the federal Endangered Species Act in the Northern Rocky Mountains and the Western United States. The federal legal status of gray wolves does not change as a result of this finding. The USFWS also announced it will undertake a process to develop a first-ever nationwide gray wolf recovery plan by Dec. 12, 2025 as well as initiate a new effort to create and foster a national dialogue around how communities can live with gray wolves. WDFW plans to engage in these processes. This decision means that the gray wolf's listing status under the federal Endangered Species Act will remain the same in Washington. Wolves are federally delisted in Washington east of Highway 97 from the British Columbia border south to Monse, Highway 17 from Monse south to Mesa, and Highway 395 from Mesa south to the Oregon border (the eastern one-third of the state) and are federally listed west of these highways (the western two-thirds of the state). Today's announcement by the USFWS does not affect the state listing status of wolves. Wolves are currently listed as state-endangered statewide in Washington. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is currently reviewing the state status of wolves. WDFW released the Draft Periodic Status Review (PSR) (https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02427) for the Gray Wolf in May 2023 and plans to release the Final PSR in February 2024. The Fish and Wildlife Commission will have a briefing and public hearing on the PSR in March, followed by a decision in April. WDFW remains committed to the recovery and long-term sustainability of Washington's gray wolf population. WDFW will continue to work closely with partners, stakeholders, and communities, as we have over the past decade, to recover, conserve, and manage Washington wolves. WDFW and its partners are focused on reducing conflict between wolves and livestock, emphasizing proactive nonlethal conflict deterrence, and achieving statewide recovery objectives. Since the first WDFW wolf survey in 2008, the state's wolf population has grown by an average of 23 percent per year. The state's minimum year-end wolf population increased for the 14th year in a row in 2022. WDFW and tribes counted 216 wolves (five percent increase) in 37 packs in Washington in 2022. Of these packs, 26 were successful breeding pairs. Washington Gray Wolf Conservation and Management Annual Reports (https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/publications) and other information about Washington's wolves can be found on WDFW's website. Request this information in an alternative format or language at wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/requests-accommodation, 833-855-1012, TTY (711), or CivilRightsTeam@dfw.wa.gov. -WDFW-

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 1307 | TRs | Pics
timberghost
Member
PostMon Feb 05, 2024 10:41 am 
WDFW and its partners are focused on reducing conflict between wolves and livestock, emphasizing proactive nonlethal conflict deterrence, and achieving statewide recovery objectives. What about conflicts between wolves and people's pets? guns.gif

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 12753 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostMon Feb 05, 2024 9:57 pm 
Why would their pets matter? They're not indigenous animals.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1469 | TRs | Pics
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
Member
PostTue Feb 06, 2024 5:27 am 
Probably referencing the fact of them killing peoples pets like the recent dog kill in the Methow

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!



Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 11249 | TRs | Pics
Location: Don't move here
treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
PostTue Feb 06, 2024 7:22 am 
Ski wrote:
Why would their pets matter? They're not indigenous animals.
Tribal peoples had dogs with them. Dogs were work animals, alarm systems, and food. They are part of the ecosystem along with........people.

What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bronco
Member
Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 133 | TRs | Pics
Bronco
Member
PostTue Feb 06, 2024 9:12 am 
Sky Hiker wrote:
Probably referencing the fact of them killing peoples pets like the recent dog kill in the Methow
Interested in this, do you know where in the Methow this occurred?

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1469 | TRs | Pics
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
Member
PostWed Feb 07, 2024 5:47 am 
Yea it was up Texas cr I believe. If you go to the map on this website and check Wolf it will show the location. https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/living/dangerous-wildlife/reports

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 1307 | TRs | Pics
timberghost
Member
PostWed Feb 07, 2024 11:53 am 
The unique part is that with the ungulates population at an all time low in Wa and the wolves are force to find food in other sources. Just like they are now in Yellowstone where they are feeding on bison since the elk population went below 5000. When a wolves natural fear of man (which existed from being hunted) is lost they are more apt to feed closer to humans.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sculpin
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 1373 | TRs | Pics
Sculpin
Member
PostFri Feb 09, 2024 9:11 am 
timberghost wrote:
the ungulates population at an all time low in Wa
I asked Bing copilot about this: "The elk population in Washington state has experienced varying trends across different herd units. Let’s delve into the details: Blue Mountains Herd: Trend: Stable but below historic levels. Management Concerns/Limiting Factors: Disturbance on winter range and cougar predation. Colockum Herd: Trend: Increasing but still below historic levels. Management Concerns/Limiting Factors: Declining calf recruitment and increasing antlerless harvest. Mount St. Helens Herd: Trend: Declining. Management Concerns/Limiting Factors: Closing forest canopy reducing habitat quality, hoof disease prevalence. Overall, the elk population in Washington faces challenges such as human encroachment, habitat conversion, predation, and disease. Despite the vast landscapes, human influence remains significant. The current population estimate (2022) is approximately 29% below the midpoint of the objective range for elk in the state." Not much point in talking about the effects of our 216 wolves at this time. Maybe when we have 2000. I also see that over 5,000 elk were harvested by hunters in the last year measured, that must be ten times the number taken by wolves.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sky Hiker
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1469 | TRs | Pics
Location: outside
Sky Hiker
Member
PostFri Feb 09, 2024 1:22 pm 
We know wolves don't survive on elk alone, ungulates populations include deer, moose, sheep, goats and elk. You would find that more deer are taken by wolves then elk in Wa state. Elk pop in Wa 45,000 to 50,000 est., deer 270,000 to 330,000 est.. Deer population is distributed across the whole state, Elk are not. Some packs feed on elk and some don't depending on their territory. 29% below the objective. The state varies its objective from year to year with a lot based on current population to make it's self look good.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Ski
><((((°>



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 12753 | TRs | Pics
Location: tacoma
Ski
><((((°>
PostSat Feb 10, 2024 6:12 am 
^ The Roosevelt Elk population in the Mt. St. Helens area historically had the largest population (of elk) in Washington State. The primary reason for the population decline in the St. Helens area is (as noted above) lack of foraging habitat. Not enough open space at upper elevations as there always was historically (due to either fire or timber harvesting.) Curiously the quote above doesn't mention the Olympic Peninsula, which hosts the second-largest population of elk in Washington State.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Sculpin
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 1373 | TRs | Pics
Sculpin
Member
PostSun Feb 11, 2024 8:36 am 
Sky Hiker wrote:
more deer are taken by wolves then elk in Wa state
I'm down in Napa for the winter again. Boy does this place need wolves. Or grizzlies, which used to be abundant here. Napa is surrounded by "fossil" oak forests. Below about 1000' there are almost no conifers, and the few Gray Pines don't cast much shade. The western conifer forests give way to mixed oak woodland here. Where these forests occur on rich volcanic soils, they comprise the most productive land on earth, producing forage and acorn mast comparable to a crop in a plowed field. There are still plenty of big oaks, but almost no oak seedlings, and no saplings at all. South-facing slopes have pure stands of Blue Oak. In those stands, there are no seedlings or saplings whatsoever. Where you do find scattered live oak seedlings, they eventually become ball shaped from deer predation, keeping all the new growth within reach of the deer. The oaks generally survive even the hottest of fires, eventually resprouting from the trunks. But some of the trees are hollow from fungal infections, and if the fire gets in there they burn down to ash. The sum total of all this is that the oak forests are gradually disappearing and being replaced by bay trees - which are not grazed - and brush. This is very similar to what happened in England, Scotland, and Ireland over the last millenium. The original forests were cut, improving the habitat for deer and causing their population to spike. Eventually the deer were pruning all the seedlings the same way they are here. Each generation of people were born with fewer oaks and smaller forests, never realizing what was missing, until all the forests were completely gone. Experiments have shown that the trees grow perfectly well as long as deer are fenced out. Fencing all the trees is impossible. If these oak forests could be saved by anything but predators, there would be a strong commitment to make that happen. But no one has come up with anything.

Between every two pines is a doorway to the new world. - John Muir
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
brineal
Snarky Master



Joined: 30 Oct 2017
Posts: 151 | TRs | Pics
brineal
Snarky Master
PostTue Feb 13, 2024 2:48 pm 
Sculpin wrote:
Sky Hiker wrote:
more deer are taken by wolves then elk in Wa state
I'm down in Napa for the winter again. Boy does this place need wolves. Or grizzlies, which used to be abundant here. Napa is surrounded by "fossil" oak forests. Below about 1000' there are almost no conifers, and the few Gray Pines don't cast much shade. The western conifer forests give way to mixed oak woodland here. Where these forests occur on rich volcanic soils, they comprise the most productive land on earth, producing forage and acorn mast comparable to a crop in a plowed field. There are still plenty of big oaks, but almost no oak seedlings, and no saplings at all. South-facing slopes have pure stands of Blue Oak. In those stands, there are no seedlings or saplings whatsoever. Where you do find scattered live oak seedlings, they eventually become ball shaped from deer predation, keeping all the new growth within reach of the deer. The oaks generally survive even the hottest of fires, eventually resprouting from the trunks. But some of the trees are hollow from fungal infections, and if the fire gets in there they burn down to ash. The sum total of all this is that the oak forests are gradually disappearing and being replaced by bay trees - which are not grazed - and brush. This is very similar to what happened in England, Scotland, and Ireland over the last millenium. The original forests were cut, improving the habitat for deer and causing their population to spike. Eventually the deer were pruning all the seedlings the same way they are here. Each generation of people were born with fewer oaks and smaller forests, never realizing what was missing, until all the forests were completely gone. Experiments have shown that the trees grow perfectly well as long as deer are fenced out. Fencing all the trees is impossible. If these oak forests could be saved by anything but predators, there would be a strong commitment to make that happen. But no one has come up with anything.
It's ok to be against the North American conservation model. It's ok to be anti-ungulate. It's ok to advocate for policies against maintaining ample game populations.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
timberghost
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 1307 | TRs | Pics
timberghost
Member
PostWed Feb 14, 2024 5:42 am 
Its good to hear you feel that way

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Public Lands Stewardship > Wolves need our help NOW!
  Happy Birthday TravelHiker, jennmonkey, The Obscure Photographer, Wazzu_camper, Jordan, Sean T!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum