Forum Index > Trail Talk > Avalanche death on St. Helens
 Reply to topic
Previous :: Next Topic
Author Message
idoru
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Feb 2023
Posts: 115 | TRs | Pics
Location: Portland-ish
idoru
Member
PostTue Apr 02, 2024 3:06 pm 
Randito wrote:
It seems that you are the one that started the "semantics" argument with your questioning my use of the term "delusional" in terms of evaluating the risk of death from a a cornice fall from Mt St Helens -- arguing that because there was a non-zero chance of survival the term delusional was not the correct word.
I don't know how else to say what I've already said, including the part where I just admitted that the phrase, "Is it, though?" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I truly don't understand why you're digging your heels in here. And, please - let's not do the whole, "You started it," thing that my kids like to do, because it doesn't matter and my comment about semantics wasn't intended as a slight towards you. Have a nice day.

RumiDude
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
solohiker
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 1081 | TRs | Pics
Location: issaquah
solohiker
Member
PostTue Apr 02, 2024 3:20 pm 
Hey I'm the one being called delusional, and I'm not in the least offended. I should have left out the word "decent" to say a "chance of survival" and maybe even added in "albeit slim" so that's my bad. "Decent chance of survival" was too optimistic, and he was correct in pointing that out. Oddly, I was intending to side with Randito's early argument on page one of the cornice fall vs avalanche debate, by pointing out that ANY chance of survival from a cornice break is further diminished if the breakage leads to a full avalanche down the mountain, hence yes it's fair to describe the event as an avalanche. Depending how far one free falls, and how one lands, it is possible to survive a fall with no avalanche, if both luck and skill are with you, but you'd need a lot of both. I'm not advocating ANYONE give it a try. Agreed it would be delusional to consider cornice breaking a safe activity.

I have never been lost, but I'll admit to being confused for several weeks. - Daniel Boone

idoru
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
kvpair
Member
Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2018
Posts: 119 | TRs | Pics
Location: Sammamish
kvpair
Member
PostWed Apr 03, 2024 8:54 am 
OK, I think that we all agree that standing on cornices can be fatal. St. Helens attracts all sorts of people, including some very inexperienced hikers. How are they supposed to know if they are on a cornice or not, other than standing on exposed rock?

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
turboag12
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Oct 2023
Posts: 9 | TRs | Pics
turboag12
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 8:12 am 
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2024/04/mountaineer-survived-1200-foot-fall-into-mount-st-helens-crater-died-trying-to-climb-out-rescuers-say.html?outputType=amp “The way the rescuers pieced it together, Shorey tried to zigzag up to the rim and climb over, but failed, because the snow jutted out from the rim and hung straight above him. Then he climbed down and walked east and tried in a different spot, but failed there, too. The whole time he would have been digging his hands into the snow in the nearly vertical crater wall. The snowboard boots he had offered little traction. On yet another attempt to climb over the rim, Shorey apparently fell a second time. The rescuers saw three places in the snow above where they found his body where it looked like something had hit the snow. There were no boot prints near his body or other evidence he had moved.” He almost climbed out after the initial fall. Open the link in a private tab to bypass the paywall.

zimmertr
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bosterson
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Posts: 294 | TRs | Pics
Location: Portland
Bosterson
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 8:26 am 
I still got stuck at the paywall even with a private tab, so here's a link to the article that bypasses it. https://archive.ph/NLWpw

Go! Take a gun! And a dog! Without a leash! Chop down a tree! Start a fire! Piss wherever you want! Build a cairn! A HUGE ONE! BE A REBEL! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE! (-bootpathguy)

Cyclopath, turboag12
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 1227 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 8:33 am 
Whoa!

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
idoru
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Feb 2023
Posts: 115 | TRs | Pics
Location: Portland-ish
idoru
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 9:13 am 
Quote:
He was wearing only snowboard boots, synthetic pants and a lightweight long-sleeve shirt. His jacket, cellphone, SOS satellite device and backpack were at the top of the crater where, minutes earlier, he was documenting his summit of the mountain.
I'm not casting judgement on Rocky, but this is a good opportunity to remind ourselves that if you have an SOS device, try your best to remember to keep it on your person at all times. Very eerie to hear about him surviving the fall and trying to climb out, especially when you look back at the photos turboag12 posted earlier in the thread.

Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Bosterson
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Posts: 294 | TRs | Pics
Location: Portland
Bosterson
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 9:33 am 
turboag12 wrote:
You can see what looks like boot tracks in the crater. I can't explain these. I don't know if they were part of the rescue/recover effort but it is eerie.
I hadn't looked closely at these pics before, but now having read what happened, it seems pretty clear those must be his tracks trying to traverse under the rim to find a way out - and presumably he fell over towards the left under that rock band, where the tracks stop and the slide goes down vertically below. frown.gif

Go! Take a gun! And a dog! Without a leash! Chop down a tree! Start a fire! Piss wherever you want! Build a cairn! A HUGE ONE! BE A REBEL! YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE! (-bootpathguy)

philfort  idoru
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
turboag12
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Oct 2023
Posts: 9 | TRs | Pics
turboag12
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 9:50 am 
Bosterson wrote:
I hadn't looked closely at these pics before, but now having read what happened, it seems pretty clear those must be his tracks trying to traverse under the rim to find a way out - and presumably he fell over towards the left under that rock band, where the tracks stop and the slide goes down vertically below. frown.gif
Yeah, I would agree that's where his fatal fall occurred. If you look to the far upper right of the photo you can seen boot tracks running into a cornice that is jutting out. He was 15-20 ft from the crater rim.

idoru
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Gil
Member
Member


Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 4062 | TRs | Pics
Gil
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 11:55 am 
That is so sad. Poor guy.

Friends help the miles go easier. Klahini
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
gb
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6309 | TRs | Pics
gb
Member
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 12:18 pm 
turboag12 wrote:
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2024/04/mountaineer-survived-1200-foot-fall-into-mount-st-helens-crater-died-trying-to-climb-out-rescuers-say.html?outputType=amp “The way the rescuers pieced it together, Shorey tried to zigzag up to the rim and climb over, but failed, because the snow jutted out from the rim and hung straight above him. Then he climbed down and walked east and tried in a different spot, but failed there, too. The whole time he would have been digging his hands into the snow in the nearly vertical crater wall. The snowboard boots he had offered little traction. On yet another attempt to climb over the rim, Shorey apparently fell a second time. The rescuers saw three places in the snow above where they found his body where it looked like something had hit the snow. There were no boot prints near his body or other evidence he had moved.” He almost climbed out after the initial fall. Open the link in a private tab to bypass the paywall.
What a tragic story. Surely he would have been injured in the first fall. An amazing effort on his part. RIP

runup, Tom, RichP
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Posts: 1227 | TRs | Pics
Location: Issaquah
zimmertr
TJ Zimmerman
PostFri Apr 05, 2024 2:51 pm 
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
Eric Hansen
Member
Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2015
Posts: 866 | TRs | Pics
Location: Wisconsin
Eric Hansen
Member
PostTue Apr 09, 2024 9:28 am 
Wow. Sad and bad. Such a competent and good guy. RIP

Off trail rambler
Back to top Reply to topic Reply with quote Send private message
   All times are GMT - 8 Hours
 Reply to topic
Forum Index > Trail Talk > Avalanche death on St. Helens
  Happy Birthday N!
Jump to:   
Search this topic:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum