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Ski
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PostThu Jun 02, 2005 9:01 pm 
dosewallips/road closure
Timber Cruiser- in re: Do you have a reference for this that I could look into? information on nesting: http://www.sfu.ca/biology/wildberg/bertram/mamurt/research.htm About 10 years ago (95? 96?) I bumped into two biologists working for NPS along the Carbon River Road while on a day-hike and talked to them for some time. They had a yellow rope hung from a rather small tree ( western hemlock? ) not more than 20 feet from the road ( on the north side ) about 1.5 miles from the entrance, and were climbing the tree on a regular basis to do observation. You could check with MRNP and see if this is noted in any documents ( EA or EIS ), or in their archives.

"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach. I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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aestivate
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PostThu Jun 02, 2005 11:35 pm 
ski wrote:
However, "suitable habitat for spotted owls and marbled murrelets" needs to be taken with a grain of salt. An example of this would be the Carbon River Road, where there was an abandoned marbled murrelet nest about 1.5 miles in from the beginning of the road. The nest was monitored for several years while they waited for the bird to come back. The abandoned nest was but one of many issues which delayed the re-opening of the road. .
You don't know much about murrelet detection, or murrelet nesting habits. It is pretty much a lucky fluke to find a nest. Probably less than twenty have ever been found. Virtually all detections are flyovers at dusk when the birds are going to or from tidewater. So the notion of "murrelet circles", unlike "spotted owl circles" is nonsensical. Furthermore, murrelets don't re-use nests. They're not really nests, as we think of them, anyway, just flat spots on mossy branches. So there wouldn't be much point in monitoring an old nesting site, assuming you had been incredibly lucky and found one in the first place. But maybe you're mixing up murrelets and spotted owls.
ski wrote:
The forest along the Carbon River Road is one of the last remaining contiguous segments of uncompromised, mid-elevation temperate rain forest in the Pacific Northwest. There was a trail report recently posted on this site by a woman who hiked up the Carbon River Trail with a group of children. I have to wonder how far a group with small children would have made it ( had the road still been closed ) trudging up that additional 5 miles of gravel road. .
Perhaps they would spend it looking at the uncompromised, low-elevation temperate rain forest which lines the road. The hike starts where the driving stops. And if you insist that hiking old roads doesn't count, I'm sure the park service has the resources to create a trail paralleling the now defunct road.
ski wrote:
Additionally, lack of vehicle access to these sites has negative effects. An example of this was extensive vandalism to most of the park structures at the end of the Carbon River Road several years ago. ... The Queets River Road is presently closed due to a washout, and the same conditions exist as on the Dosewallips. The ranger station has already been broken into. The inability of law enforcement to access the area can only further aggravate the already out-of-control problem of poaching ( salmon, steelhead, elk ) in an area notorious for poaching. .
I gotta call nonsense on this one. You want to prevent vandalism and poaching, close off motorized access. Why do you think the FS closes back roads to lookouts? To keep them from getting vandalized.

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addled furry one
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PostFri Jun 03, 2005 12:07 am 
DATA!!! I wub.gif Google!

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Timber Cruiser
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PostFri Jun 03, 2005 7:56 am 
ski wrote:
Timber Cruiser- in re: Do you have a reference for this that I could look into? information on nesting: http://www.sfu.ca/biology/wildberg/bertram/mamurt/research.htm About 10 years ago (95? 96?) I bumped into two biologists working for NPS along the Carbon River Road while on a day-hike and talked to them for some time. They had a yellow rope hung from a rather small tree ( western hemlock? ) not more than 20 feet from the road ( on the north side ) about 1.5 miles from the entrance, and were climbing the tree on a regular basis to do observation. You could check with MRNP and see if this is noted in any documents ( EA or EIS ), or in their archives.
No, I meant a reference to the story about the murrelet nest being the reason for the continued road closure. I just thought it was a bogus reason to hold up the re-opening. Even that tree you describe doesn't fit the profile for a "nest" tree. Platform (i.e. nest trees) usually are 32"+ with platforms at least 50' or higher on the tree. Although not a scientist, I deal with murrelet issues almost every day, and I know more than I care to about MM habits, survey protocol, and the impact on forest practices MM habitat has in this state. They are an incredibly self diminishing species do to their behavior, and proof that there is a God, because evolution doesn't have a sense of humor.

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MtnGoat
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PostSat Jun 04, 2005 3:32 pm 
Quote:
ski: What load being dumped. How is it elitist to sincerely want to protect a grove of ancient trees?
It depends on what methods are being proposed to do so, for one thing. For example, we are told "protecting" the MFK means ending preferred access method for many folks, in favor of a trail when trail users already have a trail all their own on the other side of the river. Those supporting the closure want access they disagree with denied even when the access they prefer is already available, because they want ONLY methods they already approve of allowed. You don't see road supporters demanding the trail be opened to motorized use, or closed. They're tolerant of multiple methods, but the other side isn't. That's elitism in my book. As for the aside on smoking laws, that's more appropriate for the ENWH, where the rebuttal is already in progress.

Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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phillyjon
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PostTue Jun 21, 2005 10:13 am 
Man... I'm an idiot. On my second trip along the dosewallops detour yesterday I noticed that the forest might be 50-100 years older then I first guessed, with some of the trees topping out at 200ft. And if the ribbons strung out about 20-50 ft to the right of the detour is the planned road route, it seems like they have every intention of taking out most if not all of these. I thought they'd try to work around, leaving the majority. (DUH!) HOWEVER, I still favor re-opening the road. I saw a park service sign beyond the washout that said, "Fishing Starts June 1st." It was sad. How many old-timer fisherman have waited every year for that sign, and now will be deprived because fitter people prefer a 4 mile roadwalk. It must really make their blood boil. Seeing what they're planning to do with the detour is leaning me to the bridge option. There is also the potential of having a new trail run parallel to the road from the washout area, after the road is fixed, to the Park, as there are many patches of rare lowland mature forest. In twenty years or so people from the east might be able to get to the NW in under 2 hours. They'll be eager to see the natural heritage they've been paying for for generations. It would also ease the load on other trails.

"No matter how high one sits upon a pedestal, one still sits upon his arse." Ben Franklin
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phillyjon
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PostFri Jul 29, 2005 6:40 am 
For what it's worth, I read a recent trip report, ( I wish I could remember the poster), where they said that they ran into a WTA crew back there white-flagging a new proposed road-route that avoids the oldgrowth. Certainly deserves re-uping my membership. banana.gif

"No matter how high one sits upon a pedestal, one still sits upon his arse." Ben Franklin
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