[Steve]

It is to demonstrate that the gov't can and will stick it to you any way, any time and anywhere they see fit. Once you've been whupped and kow tow to them then they make it permanent.

[catwoman]

I tried reading up a little on the constitution link you gave and couldn't find anything regarding public lands, but the language is a little confusing to me and there's a lot to go through. And, quite frankly, I'm not sure what to look for. Steve, by the way, what's "kow tow"?

[Connie Stooshun]

[Tom]

[Slugman]

Catwoman: The NW forest pass fee is easily avoidable with no chance of a ticket. Just park at least 1/4 mile from a trailhead and walk the extra distance. There is often a sign telling exactly where the fee area begins. General comments:The money collected is not earmarked for wilderness protection (which everyone should help pay for), but for providing access for users such as trailhead parking, etc. I don't like the fee, but it clearly is not unconstitutional. The Washington State constitution has nothing to do with the subject of the NW forest pass, since these are federal lands not subject to state approval in any way whatsoever. The question really comes down to what should everyone pay for versus what should only the users pay for. I don't want to pay for climbing-related expenses, since I don't climb. Other people don't want to pay for hiking access since they don't hike. There is no absolute right or wrong here. Why should a person in another part of the country pay for the new trailhead at Smithbrook, for example? There is no public benefit to this parking area except to those who use it. Park up the hill and use the old trail and save the pass money and 200 ft elevation gain as well! Kow Tow is a Chinese term which means to "bow in abject submission".

[polarbear-]

[Terry L. Anderson]

I was President Bush's Public Lands Policy Advisor during the election. I support the fee demonstration project and other public lands privatization initiatives (See my Political Economy Research Center) but that's only the beginning. Here's the Executive Summary of my plan for privatizing all public lands: "...we offer a blueprint for auctioning off all public lands over 20 to 40 years. Both environmental quality and economic efficiency would be enhanced by private rather than public ownership. Land would be auctioned not for dollars but for public land share certificates (analogous to no par value stock certificates) distributed equally to all Americans. Those certificates could be freely transferred at any time during the divestiture period and would not expire until after the final auction. Land would be partitioned into tracts or primary units, and corresponding to each tract would be a set of distinct, separable, elemental deed rights. Any individual with a documented claim to rights defined by those deeds, however, would be assigned the appropriate deed or deeds. Once divested, tract deed rights would be freely transferable." http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-363es.html

[Username]

Most trails in these here parts were built in the 1915-1939 era. Many were built to give forest fighters access to potential fires, and to fire lookouts. Much of the effort was during the New Deal era to put men to work. Some were built for extractive industries like mining. This was largely halted when WWII broke out, and the nation's energies were diverted to the war effort. After the war, the lookouts and fire trails were maintained for a few decades. Eventually logging encroached on many of the trails, obliterating some. Aircraft became a more efficient fire surveying and fire fighting tool than lookouts and horses. But the legacy of maintaining the trails continued. It became an entitlement program, much like the current social security system*. Then Reagan was elected, and he pushed through a massive change to the tax structure and the size of government. People like paying less taxes. Later presidents worked to balance the federal budget. Something has to give -- in this case trail maintenance was severly curtailed. Thus, it takes fees and volunteers to maintain our trail system, which is now used primarily for recreation. We all voted it that way! We have to live with it, or change the system.

[marzsit]

actually, aircraft are not more effective at detecting fires, they just cost less than manned lookouts. the current fires in eastern washington and british columbia probably wouldn't have become so large if they had been detected earlier....

[BarePaw]

Just out of curiosity, how much does one of those counters cost?