[MC]

Otheres have trailheads scattered every half mile or so Cle Elm River Comes to mind that effectively preclude walking.

[McPilchuck]

Trailhead Parking: In the Olympics Buckhorn Wilderness, I see several cars always parked a 1/4 mile away from trailheads on the roads...example is near the Tubal Cain or Silver Creek trails, as well as others I've seen. I've also seen many parking 1/4 mile from T-heads at locations to Ashland Lakes, Mt. Pilchuck main T-head, Bear and Pinnacle Lakes T-head, Mallardy Ridge (Walt Bailey T-head), and even up on Toga Ridge road in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness. I don't see many tickets on windsheilds. As for me, rarely do I park at T-heads (some of my friends do that I go with on occasion). I do on however sometimes and have never received a ticket, but then I display my "Veteran Exempt (drafted) Status Already Paid My Dues to the Federal Government" on my windsheild. Again, I don't mind helping out by volunteering to do some things here and there or even sending some money for projects, have been doing that for 40 years as well as picking up trash- sometimes for an entire day, but I can't get myself to pay to park in National Forest on public lands. Call me crazy, but it's an issue at heart with me...and most everyone that knows me understands it's just McPil being stubbon.

[Sore Feet]

As far as I know, the FS doesn't go after people who don't pay, simply because it would be too expensive. The question is whether not paying the ticket puts a ding in your driving record. I kind of doubt the FS has the authority to do that. With the exception of 1- Perry Creek, where I had a day pass which was given to me, 2- )Parked at the trailhead 2 miles before Walupt Lake (Coleman Weedpatch I think, but I can't remember), trying to find Walupt Creek Falls (not even using the trailhead the pass was needed at), I got a ticket, but EVERY other trail I've hiked that needed a pass in the last 4+ years, I've not had a pass and gotten away with it. Twice at Lake Serene (today was one), twice at the Foss, twice at Lake 22, twice at at least 3 seperate trails at Quinault, three times at the Taylor, twice at Big Four, even once at Snow Lake (though I only went in 1/4 mile to shoot some pics) and the list goes on. I think they really only enforce the passes on heavy days like Memorial day and weekends, and then only at the super popular trailheads.

[polarbear]

I've seen cars parked 1/4 mile away on a weekday at Ingalls Lake, and cars ticketed on that day. They may not be serious about collecting fines at this point, but if (if?) the fee demo progam goes beyond demo I'm sure they will either implement a better method of collecting fees or fines. The few times I've checked to see what % of cars had passes, I'd say it was around 50%, or just slightly more. Alot of cars get tickets. I've got one. It is in my car somewhere and when I find it I will pay it

[sf]

Just bought a pass in Sedona AZ a few days ago. ($5/day or $30/year). The 1/4 mile thingie doesn't apply -- it's for parking anywhere in the National Florist. Then I bought passes to Death Valley NP, Grand Canyon NP, Zion NP, and a few other places run by the National Park Service like Sunset Crater, Montezuma Castle, and some of those other cool ruins places. Wish I'd got the gol-danged $50 annual pass! I think I gave Uncle Sam close to $80 in the past week. Luckily I'm getting an income tax refund to help pay for these items. Sure is great to get back and see the semi-annual internet debate on parking fees again. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[polarbear]

Post some photos from your trip SF so we can see what's down there and save some money at the same time.

[kleet]

The future? A chuckle from http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=grec.climbing As I snuggled into my sleeping bag and looked up at the Milky Way, I thought that our luck was good. Murphy and I had been working our way through "26 Classic Couloirs." Last weekend we had doubled up and gotten both the U-notch and the V-notch. With the weather looking so good, tomorrow's ascent of the W-notch was virtually assured. Our good luck had started when we were both able to get out of work early. We were first in line at the trailhead checkpoint and quickly got our wilderness permits, wilderness passports, wilderness visas, national park travel documents, and back-country letters of transit. Even the ranger at the departure point was extra-nice and installed our wilderness collars a little looser than normal. The hike up to our camp was uneventful. We had only one warning incident when Murphy stumbled and accidentally stepped off the trail while regaining balance. The tinny, metallic voice from his wilderness collar said, "Cutting of switchbacks is prohibited. Please stay on the trail." We had a good laugh over that one! The cool night air felt good on my exposed face as I looked up at the stars. Murphy still had not gotten into his sleeping bag. "Is something wrong?" I asked. "My stomach is a little queasy," he said. "I don't think I should have had that third burrito. Maybe I better step behind the bushes." He walked into the woods. Suddenly there was a loud crackle of electricity and a bright arcing lightning bolt split the night. Murphy screamed in pain. A metallic voice stated, "Human excretory function executed 97 feet from seasonal watercourse. Warning voltage applied." Murphy staggered back into camp, smoke rising from the blackened burns on his neck. He collapsed in a lifeless heap, careful not to disturb the nearby petroglyph depicting an ancient Indian battle. Reacting with pure survival instinct, I leaped up and grabbed my pack, thankful that I had prepared it for tomorrow's climb. I dived out of the campsite as Murphy's collar continued its metallic discourse: "All organic waste is the responsibility of the hiking party. Please pack it out!" I raced up the trail. I knew I had less than a minute before the Forest Service computers linked Murphy's collar to mine. As I ran, I frantically stuffed a packet of Wyler's lemonade into the neckband as insulation from the inevitable "warning voltages." Lungs bursting, I charged upward until I was frozen by an ominous sound. The rhythmic beat of helicopter rotors filled the canyon. As I watched, they hovered over our recent campsite, loudspeakers blaring a Wagnerian opera. A company of Forest Service Rangers rappelled into the LZ and fanned out to secure the perimeter. It would be a matter of minutes before they sent out patrols. I had to move fast. My only chance was up. I would have to solo the W-notch couloir! Climbing literally for my life, I powered up the steep chute. As I reached the notch, the first ranger patrol opened fire. A dark opening in the rock offered slight protection, so I ducked in. Amazingly, it was the entrance to a deep cave! Dumbstruck, I walked in. No headlamp was necessary, since lighting was provided by environmentally correct warm temperature fluorscents. An officious woman with a bullhorn was addressing a large milling crowd. "People! People! Work with me here! If everyone gets into the right line, things will move much faster! I want survivors of ancient battles in the west chamber. Survivors of future battles, and mountaineers follow the orange line to waiting room B. Lost tour groups and environmental activists report to Mr. Smith next to the snack bar!" The commotion was bewildering. As I stood there, two climbers in EBs squeezed past, followed shortly by a lost member of the Lewis and Clark expedition. The woman with the bullhorn seemed to be meandering toward me, but her travels were interrupted by an Aztec who had mistakenly found himself in the Anasazi line. Finally, she approached me just as the pursuing squad of forest rangers burst in wearing their full assault gear. As they leveled their rifles at me, the woman addressed them by bullhorn. "Survivors of modern battles, waiting room B! You people aren't listening!" She herded them off down the orange line. Before I could imagine that my good luck was returning, she fixed me with an icy stare. "And what are you doing there? Besides being a blight on the environment?" she said. "Nothing. Nothing! No, no, I'm an aware, low-impact user," I stammered. Her glare became even icier. "Balderdash!" she said, eyeing my climbing gear. "You people have been disrupting cliff plantlife since Royal Robbins was beak-high to a spotted owl. Let me see your papers!" I started to explain that I had left all my permits in my frame pack down at the campsite, but she cut me off. "And that alibi was lame before there was even a fee demonstration program. Take him away!" Two burly men in Smokey-the-Bear hats grabbed me by the arms and hauled me down a narrow passageway. The one with the gold tooth grinned and said, "Another genius who thinks you can have wilderness without permits. You guys make me sick!" They threw me down into a dusty room with a low ceiling. A grey-haired Indian leaning against the wall looked up at me. "No wilderness permit?" he asked. "It was in my pack! And they wouldn't even listen." "Same with me," he said, glancing down at the arrow protruding from his shoulder.

[bladerunner]

[B]the socialist leftist indoctrination of this country continues. charge the people who work more to pay for those who dont. then charge them for the use of things they've already paid for. its only going to get worse. keep voting left and then keep pissing and moaning about it.

[polarbear]

I don't know if the situation we are in is due to partisan politics or not but I've never felt guilty paying for it out of taxes. The wilderness is part of our heritage and recreation is good for the community. Even those who have never set foot in the mountains benefit from seeing the pictures and hearing the stories of those who have been there. Is city/state park maintenance rocket science? It shouldn't require an MBA degree to budget for this stuff. Parks weren't invented this last decade. The wilderness is larger, let's not make it difficult for ourselves by not allowing the use of chainsaws for clearing trails. Something tells me I'll be repeating this 6 months from now.

[Dslayer]

Now that you mention it-that's also kind of fired me up-not being able to use chainsaws in WA's to maintain trails. I really enjoy the non-motorized noise experience--but I think I'd be pretty happy to hear chainsaws knowing a trail was receiving maintenance and the saw user was just passing through. Not using chain saws just seems to defy common sense. Since we're comparing experiences with ticketing-the only place I've been ticketed in is in Cle Elum District at Ingalls-simply ignored those and Manastash Lake-I got to the trailhead and a ranger was putting the ticket on my PU literally at the moment I got there-I politely, and I really was 'cause she's just do her job, gave it back to her and told her I won't be paying. Another time at the PCT on White Pass, a ranger was there forcing hikers to buy day passes, so I simply avoided him by going down the road and using another trailhead that accesses the same place.