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Dante
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Dante
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 7:45 am 
Backpacker Joe wrote:
I LIKE it when the trails I hike on are obstacle free, but it certainly isn't a requirement. Mostly I dont care whether I hike on good trails or not.
ditto.gif I'd still hike if there were NO maintained trails. OTOH, I pay for the roads I take to my jumping off point a bunch of different ways (Federal income tax, state sales tax, fuel excise tax, vehicle license fees, etc. etc. etc.)... My other problems with the fees are (1) I grew up when you did not have to pay them, so (2) I feel my other taxes should already cover it and (3) buying a pass is inconvenient. Oh, and (4) the Forest Service does not enforce it in many of the places I go...

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Quark
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Quark
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 9:21 am 
I should modify my statement "it's hard work." It's hard if you want to push your limits and do the hard work, but pushing yourself is definately not a requirement. You work as hard as you want to work, and no crew leader even halfway thinks they're better than anyone else, or judges the amount of effort a volunteer puts in. I have spent lots of time leaning on a shovel shooting the breeze, and I have also chosen at times to work on my day off chopping rock outcroppings off the trail with a pick. But the point is, is that if a financially strapped person does 2 days of work and get to the trailhead in the carpool option available, and it's not icky work - the financially strapped person can meet new freinds, do something new for a change, and perhaps find he or she likes trail work enough to do it more than the required 2 days a year. Its a great social time if you want it to be. If you're not social, work more autonomously (is that a word) and just enjoy feeling your muscles and body work. Like Al E Synne says, too, a financially strapped person can park 1/4 mile away from the trailhead if they don't wish to pay the fee or earn a pass.

"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate." Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 10:21 am 
I don't feel an obligation to buy a pass or pay a fee or get a permit to occupy unimproved public land. That doesn't mean that I refuse to comply. It just means that I take it as an intrusion and I comply with great resentment. I never get a "good feeling" about paying a fee or having to carry "papers" to prove my legitimacy in the backcountry. I'm like the proverbial disloyal dog, waiting for my abusive master to stumble. For me, that's the most negative aspect of fees, passes, permits and fines: it makes it very tough to get past the irrational, subjective resentment that the system fosters. I could probably make peace with the system. But I actually prefer the enjoyment of hating the system. There's something in me that can't reconcile the wilderness experience with virtual turnstiles that have been put in place. To do so would be to admit defeat. So I continue to submit with a smile and a low growl. Trail maintenance is another thing altogether. While I don't care much about nicely groomed trails, I sure do appreciate not having to screw around with a lot of muck and brush and river crossing detours on the lower elevation approaches. Hiking through the wet, open areas adjacent to a lot of trailheads is pretty comparable to driving in to the trailhead. It's a part of the experience, but it sure isn't the highlight. So, if trail maintenance can make the lackluster part of a trip quick and simple, then I'm all for it. Accordingly, I don't mind pitching in to work a few trails a year. If that gets me a free forest pass, so much the better. But I consider the two activities to be separate. I donate a fair amount of blood each year without the expectation that I will receive a free Medic One voucher after my first two pints. Medic One is where I expect my taxes to go.

"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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Lead Dog
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 1:27 pm 
Trail passes
Don't park at the Spider Meadow trailhead without a pass BPJ, because my friend you WILL have a nice $75.00 ticket nicely tucked under your windshield wiper upon your return. I took a 3 day trip up there last year and when I got back the tickets on the many cars parked there were fluttering in the breeze. But not mine! lol.gif I had a pass! biggrin.gif

My hair's turning white, my neck's always been red, my collor's still blue. Lynard Skynard
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kleet
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kleet
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 3:24 pm 
Lead Dog wrote:
Don't park at the Spider Meadow trailhead without a pass BPJ, because my friend you WILL have a nice $75.00 ticket nicely tucked under your windshield wiper upon your return.
I was there last summer for four days. Hung my 2001 pass on the mirror (totally different color) and SUPRISE! no ticket.

A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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Lead Dog
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 3:27 pm 
Spider meadow
A 1 looks like a 4. to me too! It probally faded in the sun right?.dizzy.gif dizzy.gif dizzy.gif

My hair's turning white, my neck's always been red, my collor's still blue. Lynard Skynard
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Dante
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Dante
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 4:04 pm 
Last time I hiked out of the end of the Middle Fork road, I parked next to a Forest Service truck. My partner and I did not have a pass and did not want the truck we were borrowing ticketed, so I left a note on the dashboard that said "I bought a pass but forgot it at home." FWIW the Forest Service truck was gone when we got back and we didn't get a ticket.

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jimmymac
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jimmymac
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 4:19 pm 
Last year I got a "thank-you" ticket under my wiper, because I did have my forest pass. I chuckled at it and stuffed it some place in the car after using it to kill some bugs. On my very next trip out, I forgot my pass at home. I rumaged around and found the thank-you ticket. I used it to accompany a note that explained I had forgotten my pass on the kitchen table. I don't know if it made any difference, but my windshield was clean when I returned.

"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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Lead Dog
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 5:15 pm 
Forest pass
If you drive to the end of the Middle Fork road they should give you a pass. lol.gif With all the work that has been poured into the Williams Lake-La Bohn Gap trail, the trail is nicer than the road.

My hair's turning white, my neck's always been red, my collor's still blue. Lynard Skynard
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Far Fig Newton
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Far Fig Newton
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 6:59 pm 
The same folks that whine and moan about the legacy of free parking probably voted for the Republicans that reduced taxes and cut the recreational forest/National Park workforce. Whinin' about hiking costing too much money should be abolished. There are bigger problems in our great green world, like them gigantic gas-guzzling monsters many folks drive to trailheads. Go to 10 hikes a year and driving 500 other times a year with them thar dinosaur drinkers will cost orders of magnitude more than trail passes. Ain't there better battles to fight? We can vote in the Democrats who'll raise taxes and get us our god-given right to park anywhere we like!

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bouncey
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bouncey
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 7:25 pm 
spring is springing
Well, last summer to avoid the fees I decided to ride my pogo stick to the trailhead. It took awhile to get from Seattle to the Ingalls Lake trailhead, and be forwarned, this mode of travel has it's ups and downs, but the point was to avoid the fees, right? When I got to the trailhead, I took one last big bounce which gave me a view of Mt. Stuart and Ingalls Lake. If I'd been smart, I would have snapped a photo or two at the apex of that spectacular pogo, and then left, but I decided to do the hike the traditional way. Well, when I got back there was a big honkin' ticket on my pogo stick. I know there is nothing in the law about pogo sticks, so my question to the reader is, is a p-stick considered a vehicle? Next time I'm going to disguise it with some branches or maybe wrap devil's club around it or something. shakehead.gif

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kleet
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kleet
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PostWed Mar 24, 2004 8:21 pm 
This was in the Times today, mebbe they could just pony up the money to pay for TrailPark Passes for all of us. Lessee, $100,000 divided by $30... Locke expected to OK bill to add money for hiking trails OLYMPIA — Gov. Gary Locke planned to sign a bill today that will shift about $100,000 from off-road-vehicle trail maintenance to pay for trails and campgrounds for hikers and campers. Previously, less than 1 percent of the state gas tax was set aside mostly to fund off-road trails, with a small percentage going to nonmotorized uses. A new bill, sponsored in the last legislative session by Rep. Mike Cooper, D-Edmonds, splits that money more evenly between nonmotorized and motorized activities. "That extra money will go a long way," said Jonathan Guzzo, a director at the Washington Trails Association in Seattle. "We've finally got some money for more restrooms, for example."

A fuxk, why do I not give one?
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