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Magellan
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Magellan
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PostTue Jan 29, 2013 7:02 pm 
This is a crazy story about a Russian family fleeing into the remote woods of Siberia, and not encountering any humans for 40 years. It's long, but what an amazing story. Smithsonian article

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flatsqwerl
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PostTue Jan 29, 2013 9:13 pm 
wow. Amazing story. Thanks.

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Blue Dome
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PostTue Jan 29, 2013 10:21 pm 
A sad story the result of religious fanaticism.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” — Harry S. Truman
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mtngirl79
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PostTue Jan 29, 2013 11:09 pm 
Blue Dome wrote:
A sad story the result of religious fanaticism.
I think that they headed off into the woods because of religious persecution, and then lived a difficult lifestyle that is conducive to extreme religious beliefs. It is totally understandable that they did not want to leave their home when the geologists found them, and later, as the remaining members of the family died. No matter how difficult living there was, as it was all they ever knew.

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Blue Dome
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PostTue Jan 29, 2013 11:25 pm 
Yes, religious persecution may have caused them to flee to a "cramped, musty and indescribably filthy" one-room cabin that "was not much more than a burrow—'a low, soot-blackened log kennel that was as cold as a cellar,'" looked like something out of the "Middle Ages," and was "hard to believe that people lived there," but their religious fanaticism played a role in them staying. It's one thing to make such a decision as an adult, but it's another thing to be thrust into such a situation as two of his young children were, or to be born into such a situation -- and never seeing another human besides their family -- as his two youngest children were. That's very sad.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” — Harry S. Truman
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mtngirl79
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 12:21 am 
You are looking at the situation from only your standpoint. The living conditions they had when the originally fled were probably not that great in the first place. It is not like they were hiding out from those terrible public schools teaching evolution, or that evil rock and roll music. People were being killed for their religious beliefs, they initial were fleeing for their lives. Once they were deep in the mountains, they had no idea what changes had taken place in society, and may not have been able to find their way back to civilization if they tried.

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Blue Dome
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 am 
mtngirl79 wrote:
You are looking at the situation from only your standpoint.
Nope. I'm looking at the situation from the standpoint of the children. By any measure, the children's plight was very sad. Religious fanaticism caused the family's persecution and the family's religious fanaticism played a role in them deciding to remain isolated.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” — Harry S. Truman
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mtngirl79
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 12:51 am 
Blue Dome wrote:
Religious fanaticism caused the family's persecution
So you are saying that the victims are at fault for their persecution because of their religion? A religion they were likely born into, and shaped their whole world view and system of knowledge? In a time and place where religion played a much bigger role in the lives, cultures, and world view of people than it does in our society?

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Blue Dome
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 1:07 am 
mtngirl79 wrote:
So you are saying that the victims are at fault for their persecution because of their religion?
I'm saying the religious fanaticism of the persecutors caused the family to flee, and the fanatical religious beliefs of the parents in the family played a role in their decision to stay isolated, and as a result, by any measure, the children led very sad lives. The thread that runs through the entire scenario is religious fanaticism.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” — Harry S. Truman
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Hulksmash
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 1:59 am 
Blue Dome wrote:
the children led very sad lives.
Did you ask if they were sad?

"Bears couldn't care less about us....we smell bad and don't taste too good. Bugs on the other hand see us as vending machines." - WetDog Albuterol! it's the 11th essential
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Chief Joseph
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 2:06 am 
I agree, maybe they were better off surviving in the wilderness, in isolation, rather than being in society, complete with it's/our myriad of problems. hmmm.gif Live like Dick Proenneke, "Alone in the Wilderness"...he seemed to be very "happy" indeed.

Go placidly amid the noise and waste, and remember what comfort there may be in owning a piece thereof.
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Bedivere
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 9:32 am 
Chief Joseph wrote:
Live like Dick Proenneke, "Alone in the Wilderness"...he seemed to be very "happy" indeed.
There is a segment in the films he produced where he talks about it being 42 degrees inside his cabin. By our standards that would be unacceptably cold. Can you imagine what CPS would say about adults who kept children at 42 degrees around here? Considering that it was below zero outside, he was relatively comfortable. Key word: relative. That said, I think it *is* sad that those children were raised in those conditions. Maybe the children weren't sad themselves, but the deprivation they suffered is unfortunate in an era when no one has to live like that. Depriving the children of the benefits of social interaction with people outside their family is sad, or unfortunate, or whatever you want to call it. The children may not have felt bad about it because maybe they didn't know what they were missing. Ignorance is bliss, right?

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sarbar
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 10:22 am 
Having read the article yesterday (unrelated coming across it!) I can say I saw the parents view on WHY they left. Perspective is everything though - in the 1930's many Russians still lived as if it was the middle ages. Education? Hah, not likely. They were living no different than they had 400 years before. Persecution came constantly, from first the nobility, then the Soviets. All of who were harsh rulers. Would you stick around if you saw your brother shot by the gov't? Not likely. My mother's family fled Russia in one of the polgroms - many of their family had been killed, had their property taken/destroyed and were one step ahead of gov't thugs (they were denied entrance to the US due to being Jewish, went to Canada and were accepted, walked down from Canada in the winter - with small children - in the brutal cold. How would people view that now? My Great-Grandmother thought it was important enough that she risked her children's lives. The only reason they ended up in the West was they had moved to St. Petersburg from the country the generation it happened. Otherwise, I could have seen them going East. (My family tree goes back only 3 generations in Russia. Before no one was literate, there are no records besides a small village and first names.) The point is, people make decisions on how to survive. Some are good, some are as good as they will have. Was it extreme, how they lived in a remote wilderness? Yes. But consider that during their period of famine had they walked 155 miles out (IF they had known which direction even go at that point), and stumbled into a small village, would that have helped? Probably not. If they had issues raising grain, others would have as well in that period. It was nearly always bad back then. That they survived that long showed they were hardy. Yes, going with a group would have been preferable, but did they have that choice? There are though still many areas of the world where humans live as if modern times have never happened. Sometimes it is religion, many times it isn't. I'd say that ...all we have to fo is look at certain countries, such as N. Korea, to see how populations live in fear. Extreme, yes...but I also do get why they had fled.

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mtngirl79
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 2:31 pm 
It is unfair to judge the choice this family made with our standards because very few of us have any idea what it is like to just barely survive, as people were doing in Russia during that time, and if they were surviving, they still had the constant threat of death from the government.

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Blue Dome
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PostWed Jan 30, 2013 3:51 pm 
Hulksmash wrote:
Blue Dome wrote:
the children led very sad lives.
Did you ask if they were sad?
Yes, I did.

“I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.” — Harry S. Truman
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