[MtnGoat]

Ok, how about this. Since I already stated I sometimes do reports to places that I feel are already hit enough it won't make a difference, sluggos contentions do not apply to me since they are not accurate. I'll just leave it at that. With respect to not stating TR's are bad, I continue to maintain that I have never stated they are bad. I won't post them for areas off the maintained system, because increasing focussed traffic there isn't something I want on my plate. And in re-reading the prior thread I can see I was in fact arguing against a TR there, not because TR's are in and of themselves bad but because the impacts of them can be. Still, I resist the characterization that I was calling TR's bad, I never used that language. IMO It matters not *why* someone else is perusing the database, for weather, for other routes, specifically for that offtrail spot, if *my* report results in a visitation, anywhere from a first glimmer that this place is good, to following my directions there, that's mine too. Provably so since they cannot take cues from what I do not write, and if anything I write results in a visit, it was my writing and my choice to post it that aided the access. If they take info from someone else, so be it but that info is the responsibility of that writer. Saying what we do makes no difference because someone else might do it, or someone will go there anyway, is like saying littering is no big deal because someone else does it too. What YOU do is your responsibility, regardless of the actions of others. The problem here for me is not impact, but the nature of it. IMO the number of people that can be handled in drips and drabs at random is the same number than can do damage when concentrated in a short period of time. The trick is simply allowing the random dispersal to take place. It cracks me up to be seen on many threads as a despoiler of nature and rampaging industrial flunky or something and here I am arguing for dispersed impact via randomizing visitation and by golly, that's started a bit of a dealo. Let me make it clear one more time: I will not attack TR writers, i may present arguments designed to dissuade them in certain situations. We're all people of good conscience and this thread has value, so hopefully we can continue amiably.

[whistlingmarmot]

How about having a robots.txt file? Doesn't a file such as this allow the webmaster to pick and choose what search engines such as google can record?

[Malachai Constant]

It just seems to me that you are attacking the lameness pinnacle if you are arguing about whether or not to post TR to a site that is mostly intend to post hiking info, having already banned political BS. I mean what is the point? I pretty much do not post if been there done that. If we are afraid to post anything new we might as well either just shut it down or just shoot ourselves This weekend my so and I did a 9 mi. trail run, my daughter did a 24 mi. MTN Bike ride my eldest did the SAT II and I had buds doing interesting climbs and you dweebs are arguing about whether to post TR's or not, give me a break . Also saw interesting flicks, as the philosopher said, to do is to be.

[MtnGoat]

can you see the ground from up there?

[Slugman]

[wildernessed]

In the end not writing TR, if you do, for specific areas, is a forn of imposed censorship by those who believe they know what's best, not for them or a close circle of friends, but for the rest of the people outside that circle. This is misguided at best, those who are adventurous and have access to main stream as well as not so mainstream published references will find what they need and those places were found and explored by many before their time. Many of the best places require an effort uncommon for the majority of people who even hike and backpack and will not be overwhelmed. Nothing is Sacred, Nothing is Protected, Nothing is saved. The biggest threat is population growth, resource demand, and the trend of liking and wanting what has been fragmented and destroyed in most of America. My vote is "whatever". If you think it gives your life meaning and purpose do it.

[MtnGoat]

It's "censorship" to choose not to write *personally* gained info? And deciding what is best given a persons own inclinations and beliefs is *inherent* to making value judgements. Here you are deciding what is best for someone else by deciding it's censorship to not post TR's.

[wildernessed]

Individuals are free to make choices or not, and in the context of this thread, making a choice to do a TR, or the absence of a TR based on some belief of exclusivity that will preserve wild areas is censorship of information on a website where information sharing is one of the basis for it's existence. I respect your position and opinions and everyone will act towards there own inclinations.

[Backpacker Joe]

Sluggo and Mtn Goat are always at eachothers throat. Watch it Sluggo, youre getting close to being not nice again!!!

[Allison]

[Backpacker Joe]

I can say that I've been two places in the ALW that showed ZERO signs of human life or activity. I can only imagine the places Yoda (Borank) and his fellow Jedi knights (Dan, Mike ((Mikes son)) have seen/been to. There is true wilderness out there, you just have to look for it.

[wildernessed]

ML it's voluntary on your part, but that decision is then imposed on others. If it becomes chic among a group, it deprives others, who would not benefit from information. Also the world does change, but not for you, not for me. It changes because that's the nature of things. Before humans and after humans This is a beyond help thread. I will get where I need to go, so it's irrelevant for the driven. I thank all the people whose TR, personal experiences, book and internet reference suggestions have benefited me.

[Blue Dome]

[jimmymac]

[Blue Dome]

Back to the topic.