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Riverside Laker
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Joined: 12 Jan 2004
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Is Olympic Nat'l Park closed to stock? In fact I thought the national parks did allow horsies.
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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 Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:12 pm |
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We're thinking about picking up some Llamas, and if we do I intend to do some hiking with them.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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jenjen
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Joined: 30 Jun 2003
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jenjen
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:24 pm |
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| Dufus wrote: | | Is Olympic Nat'l Park closed to stock? In fact I thought the national parks did allow horsies. |
Stock are allowed in National parks only on very limited trails. If I remember correctly, Stock is allowed on the Hoh river trail in ONP. I know that stock is allowed on the PCT through RNP. I don't know of any other trails in the National parks that allow stock, although I'm most familiar with the trails close to me (Mt. Baker wilderness and NCNP).
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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endurobabe
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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 4 | TRs | Pics
Location: Astride my firey steed |
| Quark wrote: | | Backcountry Horsemen and other horse groups are a successful lobby group for public lands. If you barr them, hikers would suffer as well, because many of their concerns are the same a those of hikers, whose lobby efforts and attendance at public hearings has traditionally been dismal. |
Well, as an actual horse owner and (competitive) rider (and hiker), I'm laying myself out to be fileted...
Quark is absolutely right that riders, packers, cyclists, hikers and any other non-motorized outdoor enthusiasts who use trails would be better to pool their collective efforts to preserve the trails that we still DO have, whether we share motives or not. The group that seems to be the most vocal is the one probably capable of doing the most damage: motorbikes, ORVs, ATVs, and such.
I mostly ride my horse on private land (Pilchuck Tree Farm), but occasionally (ok, rarely) take her on public lands. I have no issues with people packing animals, or even taking *well behaved* dogs. (I might have to draw the line at kids, though. Don't get me wrong. I like kids. They taste like chicken.)
I understand that my horse poops on the trail occasionally, but it's organic and can actually be stepped over. I think she pooped twice on the last 15 mile ride we did. Personally, I've probably packed out more people "crap" (ie, litter) than crap my horse has left on the trail.
Oh, and while it's true that some (not all) horses can shy at bikes (and dogs, and hikers), the number one thing you can do to keep a horse from spooking is talk to it. Talk about anything you like, the weather, politics, world religions, or the peak you just bagged, but it's your voice that tells a horse you're not a horse-eating monster.
Oh, and Blake, of COURSE horse riders aren't lazy. As posted, we ride because we love to ride. (Besides, let's see how *you* feel after 15 miles in 5 hours, or better, 50 in 6.) 
Thanks for tolerating a horse-ridin' hiker on your list. Flame away.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
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Chief Paulina
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Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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Location: Ochoco country |
| MtnGoat wrote: | | We're thinking about picking up some Llamas, and if we do I intend to do some hiking with them. |
I've been weighing in on this myself. Traveling the trail at my age, I think that it could be nice bringing along a pet that carries my stuff. My only concerns at this time are that I must parcel off and fence some of my property, purchase a trailer and give the care necessary for their wellbeing.
I don't mind horses. I am still able to step over it and the smell is just a part of the overall experience. I witnessed a fair amount of horsebacking in my recent trip to the Wallowas. Looks to me to be a fun experience.
"Life's been good to me so far" - Joe Walsh
"Life's been good to me so far" - Joe Walsh
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
I put horses in the same class as Trail Passes I don't like it but cannot do anything about it so I have no choice but put up with it to do what I want to do avoiding both whenever possible  . Just don't expect me to start liking either or stop griping about them.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:55 pm |
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as long as your griping does not manifest itself in support for bans, then true tolerance is at work and we can all get along without fireworks.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Of course I would support bans , but wishes are not fishes My main thing is that they should allow mountain bikes where ever horses are allowed, however.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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Ski
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Joined: 28 May 2005
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Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:22 pm pack animals
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in re: pack animals in ONP
There are trails within ONP which allow pack stock. Check the ONP website for the regulations.
Pack animals are allowed on some west side trails. Forget about the Queets until they get that road fixed: there is NO room to park and/or turn around a horse-trailer at the little pullout at Matheny Creek where the road's closed presently.
in re: banning pack animals on trails ( and othe manic rants along this line )
Obviously there are a lot of people poorly informed about HOW those trails were originally constructed, and the purpose for which they were originally intended. MOST trails in Western Washington were built with pack stock, for use by pack stock. Unfortunately the trails available to that user group have been severely limited over the years due to a very vocal user group of "hikers", squeezing a greater number of animals onto fewer available trails, and increasing their impact on those areas.
To those chanting the "ban 'em all" mantra, I'd suggest you contact the Washington Horsemen's Association, get to know some of their members, learn about the work they do which benefits YOU, and you might change your perspective.
Just my lousy two cents worth... what do I know... ??
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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MtnGoat
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Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:06 pm |
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you have to realize the depth of the banning mentality among many folks. the feeling that uses they approve of are the only ones which "should" be permissible is extremely widespread, as you can see from the increasing number of closures and exclusions for so many users and forms of recreation, excluding all but the purists among us.
Many people figure the mountains are only suited for what they already approve of, the cheapest kind of "tolerance" there is.... the kind where all you tolerate is what you already approve of.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
What tics me off most about the horse people is that they have no problem with banning bikes which do not sh*t in the trail and do not cause nearly as much erosion as their choice. The middle fork is an example of this where the road is to be closed to cars so they can ride on it and the trail is "hardened " for their use, yet bikes are still banned. To me if I could ride up the trail to the Williams lake turnoff it would partially make up for the loss, and I would rather ride through crap than walk through it. As is it is lose lose.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:21 pm |
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I've had far more problems with bikes. THREE times i've had to bail off trail as some *hole burns down the hill. And I get glared at for having the temerity to be on the trail.
It's the speed difference that is the problem. Feet of all kinds move at about the same pace, uphill or down. Wheels do not.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
Well I saw some a*hole galloping a horse up the the cave holes trail on cougar where bikes are banned and had to go bush. At least bikers do not try to ban others from their trails Hayburnerers banned bikes from the Redmond watershed and bridal trails SP and will have made the Dutch Miller Gap trail their playground 
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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MtnGoat
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics
Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:20 pm |
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| Quote: | | At least bikers do not try to ban others from their trails |
You mean like you would do to horses if it was up to you? 
What's the problem? You want some banned, they want others banned, just have a big 'ol "ban em" tug of war going.
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Malachai Constant
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 16092 | TRs | Pics
Location: Back Again Like A Bad Penny |
For the clueless here is a rating scale:
10. Strripmine
9. Subdivision
8. Clearcut
7. Paved road
6. Unpaved road
5.catrack
4. Motorcycle trail
3. Horse trail
2. MTB trail
1. foot trail
0. no trail
All things are not equal and the decision is not a binary one.
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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