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MCaver Founder
Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Posts: 5124 | TRs | Pics
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MCaver
Founder
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 11:30 am
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MtnGoat wrote: | where is this "mantra" spelled out, or is this your interpretation of someone elses words? Any quotes where someone in the administration calls someone opposing an initiative "unpatriotic"? |
I assume you mean aside from Bush's "you're with us or with the terrorists" quote? It's been a well-known tactic for the last year by the Administration and many Congressional Republicans. I found over a dozen references to such tactics in a quick search at one online news archive alone (NYTimes). One successful use of it was Saxby Chambliss' campaign against incumbent Max Cleland for a Georgia Senate seat during the midterm elections, where Chambliss used televised campaign ads accusing Cleland of being unpatriotic and likening him to Osama bin Laden because he didn't support all the provisions of the Homeland Security Bill, despite the fact that Cleland lost 3 limbs in Vietnam. For actual quotes from Administration officials, there's the nice little gem called the "Ashcroft Smear" by the Washington Post:
"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists", John Ashcroft in his opening statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee, December 6, 2001.
But must a position be stated to be true? Didn't someone say the best startegy is the one unspoken? The ease of finding news articles on it certainly shows the prevalence of the feeling, and I find it hard to believe that they were all misinterpreting someone else's words, or whatever you assumed I was doing.
MtnGoat wrote: | nothing preemptive about striking a nation known to support terrorists that have killed americans. |
Then where's our sabre-rattilng and warmongering about nations like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen? All three of these nations have been proven to either support Al Queda financially (Saudi Arabia) or harbor members directory (Pakistan and Yemen), yet you don't hear much about that. Bush has been chomping at the bit to attack Iraq since we lost bin Laden in Pakistan, yet he's presented no proof that they were involved whatsoever in the attacks on 9/11. My cynicism can only imagine why he'd really want to attack Iraq.
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:07 am
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hey mcaver, we're gagging up this topic with geopolitics, I've posted a reply in bar-n-grill under "politics" to free up the thread for folks that expect to talk about wild sky! :0
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Sore Feet Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 6304 | TRs | Pics Location: Out There, Somewhere |
Yeah, so back on to topic, does anyone know if the route up to Lake Isabel gets socked in during the winter, or is it generally accessible without snow equiptment?
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cookiejar Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2002 Posts: 18 | TRs | Pics
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cookiejar
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Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:40 pm
Lake Isabel
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I know that it is completely melted out by June 1 in average snow years (whatever average is). Getting all the way to the lake might be rough with snow on the ground (steep), but the waterfall (which is quite impressive) is probably accessible most of the year. Most of the route to the waterfall is on roads, with the last half mile on a boot path (not steep). There was a rowboat at the lake last year, tied up to the log jam. We took it for a spin, which was pretty fun. Not something I've done before in a Cascade lake.
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MtnGoat Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 11992 | TRs | Pics Location: Lyle, WA |
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MtnGoat
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Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:19 pm
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the boat is still there? It was there when I went up in '92!
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. - Will Rogers
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Sore Feet Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 6304 | TRs | Pics Location: Out There, Somewhere |
It's not exactly a place that you can easily get a boat out of (save maybe flying it out), let alone bring one in to. This boat is intriguing me, I think I'll have to go find it.
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salish Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 2322 | TRs | Pics Location: Seattle |
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salish
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Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:52 am
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Four years ago, as I was pulling myself up the last 50ft of steep trail to the lake, I heard a roar and looked up and saw a helicopter pass a couple hundred feet over my head with a 14' aluminum boat tied under the belly. There was some activity at the north end of the lake, and we ran into a local who told us it was some microsoft folks who make an annual trip up there and set up a glorious camp. We also ran into some salvage crews trying to locate a Beaver that went down a couple of years earlier. They were using some pretty sophisticated sonar and other gear. They waltzed right through our camp without so much as a howdy-do or hello. Really rude backcountry behavior. There were also Beavers from Kenmore Airlines making touch & go's in the lake, for the majority of the day, so it was loud. There was also a ton of refuse and tattered blue tarps in the south end of the lake where we camped. If you camp in the obvious spots at the south end, beware of hundreds, if not thousands of mice that ravage your packs and gear at midnite.
I was first there as an invading boy scout in 1965, so it was weird to see the place over thirty years later. By the way, my understanding is the boat was weighted down with rocks and sunk at some point so that only the people who knew where it is could use it.
I'd be interested in going up there in the snow. I'd like to hear more from folks who have done this.
Thanks,
Cliff
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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