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dacker little black dots
Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 738 | TRs | Pics Location: the end of my rope |
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dacker
little black dots
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Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:25 pm
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Yes, I said it.
And like I said earlier, I have never been in any kind of snowslide, so I can only guess as to how I would handle the type that dicey experienced. Here is what I based that statement on:
I do know that when you fall overboard in white water, the standard advice is to point your feet downstream in a sitting position and ride the water until you get to a calmer spot. This has happened to me and I can say, at least in my own experience, that it does work. So I sort of assumed that a similar approach would seem reasonable in a small wet snowslide.
If you disagree, please flame away, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
We don't stop hiking because we grow old; we grow old because we stop hiking. --Finis Mitchell
We don't stop hiking because we grow old; we grow old because we stop hiking. --Finis Mitchell
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Riverside Laker Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2004 Posts: 2818 | TRs | Pics
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Imagine total chaos: Imagine yourself sliding downhill very rapidly, on your back, head first. The slope is pretty steep, say 38°. Imagine you opened your mouth to shout "help" or "avalanche", and snow clogged in your mouth -- you are starting to choke. Imagine the soft fluffy snow you were walking on harden as it flows, tossing you around like a piece of hay in a tornado. Imagine yourself doing this for 5 seconds when suddenly you remember to "swim". Your ice axe leash is around your wrist, and it gets yanked off violently. Your ski pole is leashed to your other wrist, and it gets stuck several inches in the Cascade Concrete.
The above part really can happen.
This next section won't happen in real life.
Imagine you begin to swim, you calmly reach for the handy-dandy Aqualung tube, you deftly turn yourself on your stomach then pivot to feet down. You ditch your pack and bounce out of the avalanche like James Bond.
Back to reality.
The avalanche comes to a stop after what seems like eternity. Your pole is buried and your wrist stuck to it. You are nearly upside down. You can't move more than 1/4 inch in any direction. You can't breathe because your mouth is full of snow. You are choking. You are frantic with panic -- it's claustraphobic. You can't see because you can't open your eyes. Your ice axe wrist hurts.
Once you realize you can't move, you relax. You are not religious but you think of God. Eventually you pass out.
I saw the above happen to a buddy of mine. That's why I prefer avoiding avalanche terrain instead of carrying beacons and avalungs and probes and other gizmos that give false confidence.
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Tazz Member
Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 7902 | TRs | Pics
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Tazz
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Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:22 pm
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best post yet!!!!! I know you hate these but great post X!
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Sabahsboy Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 2484 | TRs | Pics Location: SW Sno County |
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Sabahsboy
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Wed Dec 13, 2006 6:34 pm
X's avalanche description
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Yes. I agree. I have avoided nearly all potential for such situations for years and years...even tho I was x-c skiing in all sorts of places. I always took in the terrain and decided on the side of safety. Wimps can survive! Thank you "X"!
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gyngve Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2003 Posts: 1161 | TRs | Pics
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gyngve
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:01 pm
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Quote: | That's why I prefer avoiding avalanche terrain instead of carrying beacons and avalungs and probes and other gizmos that give false confidence. |
I'm almost in agreement.
I'd agree with:
That's why I [X] prefer avoiding avalanche terrain instead of carrying beacons and avalungs and probes and other gizmos that give me false confidence.
or
That's why I [X] prefer avoiding avalanche terrain instead of carrying beacons and avalungs and probes and other gizmos that may give false confidence.
What we're really concerned about is:
(probability of getting caught in an avy w/ prior of having gizmos and associated judgment calls) * (probability of dying from that avy w/ gizmos)
vs
(probability of getting caught in an avy w/ prior of no gizmos and associated judgment calls) * (probability of dying from that avy w/ no gizmos)
Gizmos may make you more likely to get caught but may make you less likely to get killed. Where to draw the line is a personal choice, and I respect the choice you have made, X.
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dacker little black dots
Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 738 | TRs | Pics Location: the end of my rope |
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dacker
little black dots
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:59 pm
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Now it's my turn. Those aren't my quotes, they are X's.
Or am I just conflused?
We don't stop hiking because we grow old; we grow old because we stop hiking. --Finis Mitchell
We don't stop hiking because we grow old; we grow old because we stop hiking. --Finis Mitchell
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gyngve Member
Joined: 26 Nov 2003 Posts: 1161 | TRs | Pics
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gyngve
Member
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Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:24 pm
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F, I'm a retard. Editing the post now to fix the citations...
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Dailyduty Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2010 Posts: 3 | TRs | Pics
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Well, aside from your hindsight, your foresight was on your buddies tracks. Basically, perforating a boiler plate that had, at least, two exposures, and was getting heavy.
I'm sure you know about boiler plates. While they appear to be the path of least resistance, they are, also, the path of least resistance for heavy snow.
Boiler plates are compelling to traverse, mostly because of the expansiveness of the pasture, but expansivness is what creates a greater propensity for a carpet lanche. You are very fortunate that you were in a field big enough to support a lanche that kept it's upper level in tact. The trees are not, always, the safest guard against lanches. If surrounded by the conditions in which you were the carpet lanche can turn into a twister. The trunks break the uniformity of the carpet. This, in turns, creates snow vortexs act like whirpools which will take you underneath the lanche, much like an undertow at the beach.
In short, stay away from fields, unless three fundamental variables are taken into consideration.
Temperature, trend of temp, and grade.
Volume of snow, or even how many exposures it has endured, isn't too important considering your size, in relation to even a "square" yard of snow, which might equal several cubic yards of heavy, 3100 lb per cubic yard, pure sliding hydraulics.
HAVE FUN, AND STAY SMART.
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RokIzGud Cozza Frenzy
Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Posts: 1049 | TRs | Pics
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RokIzGud
Cozza Frenzy
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Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:30 am
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Glad your safe! Keep getting at it!
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Dayhike Mike Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics Location: Going to Tukwila |
Just a note, this report is from 4 years ago. Still, it's a good reminder to be safe out there.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
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beaudaddy Coast To Cascades
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Posts: 401 | TRs | Pics Location: Tulalip, WA |
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beaudaddy
Coast To Cascades
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Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:52 am
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It was nice to briefly meet you tonight Dicey... Glad to see that you survived this avalanche... lol
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hikerbiker Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2008 Posts: 155 | TRs | Pics Location: Rock Creek |
Dailyduty wrote: |
Well, aside from your hindsight, your foresight was on your buddies tracks. Basically, perforating a boiler plate that had, at least, two exposures, and was getting heavy.
I'm sure you know about boiler plates. While they appear to be the path of least resistance, they are, also, the path of least resistance for heavy snow.
Boiler plates are compelling to traverse, mostly because of the expansiveness of the pasture, but expansivness is what creates a greater propensity for a carpet lanche. You are very fortunate that you were in a field big enough to support a lanche that kept it's upper level in tact. The trees are not, always, the safest guard against lanches. If surrounded by the conditions in which you were the carpet lanche can turn into a twister. The trunks break the uniformity of the carpet. This, in turns, creates snow vortexs act like whirpools which will take you underneath the lanche, much like an undertow at the beach.
In short, stay away from fields, unless three fundamental variables are taken into consideration.
Temperature, trend of temp, and grade.
Volume of snow, or even how many exposures it has endured, isn't too important considering your size, in relation to even a "square" yard of snow, which might equal several cubic yards of heavy, 3100 lb per cubic yard, pure sliding hydraulics.
HAVE FUN, AND STAY SMART. |
Couldn't agree with you more Dailyduty, I hate it when carpet lanches turn into twisters. Thanks for the post, it made my day!
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