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peltoms
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PostFri Sep 21, 2007 9:04 am 
Skoog: great picture of Honeycomb. It is an awesome glacier right up there with Neve-Ladder Creek for my most impressive. The retreat has been amazing. The unnamed lake at the terminus is becoming quite substantial and deserves a name. Below is a 2002 picture from the shore of the lake and a 1995 picture from the 1960 terminus position. Your photograph position is better than the one I have used.

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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PostWed Sep 26, 2007 11:01 am 
Big Four update 09-25-07
Here's the latest in the series of the Big Four avalanche cone:
Avalanche Cone 09-25-07.edtd
Avalanche Cone 09-25-07.edtd
Avalanche Cone2 09-25-07.edtd
Avalanche Cone2 09-25-07.edtd
First time this year that I've been to Big Four on a cloudy day, so light levels and shadowing are quite different from previous pics in this set. Hopefully, one of those shots will work with your layered comparison.
Layers old and new
Layers old and new
I find the "glacial" elements depicted intriguing, though they require explanation. The photo was taken about 100 feet inside the main Ice Cave, looking at a window into a parallel tunnel. If I'm correct, the bright white in the upper area is new ice, developed from the snow that accumulated in the avalanche cone during the winter of 2005-06. The dirty white area below is not an older layer; it's new snow, from last winter (2006-07). It would have to have been carried in from above, with the early avalanches of the season filling, or partially filling, the Ice Cave tunnels remaining from the previous year. I'd wondered about what happened to the old tunnels each year: do they get filled up or does the weight and force of new avalanches collapse them. It's something I'll try to watch for as the season progresses. ..................... Here are a couple of pics of the waterfall at the back of the Ice Cave. Unfortunately, my camera just can't handle the vast, dark open spaces at the back of the cavern.
Ice Cave waterfall vpan
Ice Cave waterfall vpan
Ice Cave waterfall
Ice Cave waterfall
The waterfall is the same stream that was shown at the top of the avalanche cone in earlier reports. The opening on the left opens to the side of the avalanche cone, at a point about 200 feet above the base ....... and above the point from which the picture was taken.

Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
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PostWed Sep 26, 2007 4:32 pm 
Wow, I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. Very cool read. Scrooge - The Big Four ice mass was once known as the Rucker Glacier, I'm not entirely sure where I read this. It might have been in "Monte Cristo Area" by Majors, but it could have been somewhere else too. I recall that the operators of the old Big Four Inn originally thought it a glacier, but it was determined it was stagnant ice more than anything else. Peltoms - I'm real curious to see comparison shots of the Neve Glacier's retreat, particularly the eastern lobe if you have shots. Theres a pair of big waterfalls on Neve Creek right below the glacier and I'm curious if the upper of the two is a recent formation thanks to the ice retreating from the cliff face.

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peltoms
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PostFri Sep 28, 2007 12:22 pm 
Rucker Glacier, I had not heard that, anyone have more detail on this Big Four name. As far as the Neve Glacier I have some older shots but they are still just black and white prints, I will work on that. Here are two more recent shots. Any pics of the waterfalls you refer to?
Scrooge Any blue ice or just hard old white-gray multiyear ice under there. Any chance at estimating volume of the remaining snow-ice now.

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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PostFri Sep 28, 2007 12:44 pm 
A couple of John Scurlock's photos show the falls of the Neve Glacier: The upper fall below the glacier terminus (it looks like the second one you posted was taken right on top of this one) Upper Falls and the whole glacier Looking over both waterfalls (Upper fall is below the real pointy shadow and the lower fall is slightly above and left in the greenery - can't really be seen)

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peltoms
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PostFri Sep 28, 2007 1:21 pm 
The upper falls has been out from under the ice for quite sometime. However you can see the terminus in the lower basin is stagnant and the southern feeder arm no longer connects in2005. In 2001 it did and in 1991 the lower basin was active and crevassed. This lower basin as it melts will yield a new lake. It is an avalanche accumulation zone though and will not melt out that fast. I will work on a picture to illustrate this, but not today.

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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Scrooge
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PostFri Sep 28, 2007 1:25 pm 
Peltoms asked
Quote:
Scrooge Any blue ice or just hard old white-gray multiyear ice under there. Any chance at estimating volume of the remaining snow-ice now.
There were three "cubes" of blue ice on the floor at the back of the cave, breakdown, a couple of cubic feet each. The only other breakdown in the cave was a pile of unconsolidated ice and snow, a couple of cubic yards, that obviously came from somewhere up towards the top edge of the avalanche cone. I did not check the walls at the back for hard ice. I will next time I am back there. As I indicated with the picture of "Layers old and new", the ice towards the front of the cave is definitely new. .............. As for estimating the current volume of the avalanche cone, I can do it using trigonometry, rough estimates of dimensions, and an even rougher estimate of the configuration of the base. If I got within a factor of three of the actually volume, I'd be doing well. ........ On that basis, is it worth doing? ...................... I did learn one interesting thing last Tuesday, the Ice Cave goes all the way back to the cliff with very little rise in the floor. On both sides, and almost everywhere else, there's a significant talus slope at the base of the cliff. ........................ Here's a map of the Ice Caves as they appeared in the 1970's.
B4 Glacier map 1973 - Anderson & Vining
B4 Glacier map 1973 - Anderson & Vining
I'm intrigued by the indicated "Cathedral Room waterfall". That fits very well with what I found at the back of the cave, a huge open area under the glacier with the waterfall coming down the back wall. Even though that space is filled with new snow every year, and disappears entirely some years, each year that the avalanche cone builds up, the subsequent process of cave formation is apparently very, very similar from year to year. ......................... edit - Rucker Brothers
Quote:
In 1920 the Rucker brothers had acquired the P.L.Trout homestead at the base of Big Four and started construction of a 50-room hotel with tennis courts and a 9-hole golf course.
All the available evidence suggests that they named the Big Four avalanche cone after themselves and called it a "glacier" for the sake of publicity, without any particular basis for considering it a true glacier ........ even though it probably was.

Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
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PostWed Oct 10, 2007 10:09 pm 
Noticed some pictures of Mt. Fury and Luna Cirque in the northern Pickets. Thought I'd add this, a composite panorama of slides taken from Luna Peak in July 1985. Fury is on the left; Challenger on the right.
Luna Cirque
Luna Cirque

I think there's an easier way on the far side
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PostWed Oct 10, 2007 10:43 pm 
A few more pictures of glaciers in the North Cascdes, all were taken in August 1988. 1. Glaciers on NE face of Mt. Redoubt from southwest shoulder of Spickard
Redoubt3
Redoubt3
2. Small glacier on east face of Ridge of Gendarmes taken from southwest shoulder of Spickard; southeast spire of Mox Peaks is on the right.
MoxGendarme2
MoxGendarme2
3. Small glacier on east face of Mox Peaks, taken from upper Perry Creek cirque.
Mox2
Mox2

I think there's an easier way on the far side
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peltoms
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PostSat Oct 13, 2007 5:06 am 
Thanks Geobob, I do have a few old pics of this area. I will get to work on the comparison and share it. I will have to scan them. Scrooge, for this year one more photo documentation will be great for Big Four. Next year volume measurement in the fall if you are game, I will provide the equipment.

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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Scrooge
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PostThu Oct 25, 2007 10:04 pm 
Here's the "final" pic of the Big Four avalanche cone for 2007, with the one taken a month ago for comparison.
B4 avalanche cone 10-23-07.edtd
B4 avalanche cone 10-23-07.edtd
Avalanche Cone2 09-25-07.edtd
Avalanche Cone2 09-25-07.edtd
Actually, I'd like to get out there one more time before snow closes the road. I'd really like to see what the Ice Cave looks like after it stabilizes for the season, before it starts getting crushed or filled up with new snow.

Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
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PostThu Oct 25, 2007 10:57 pm 
I would be curious if there are any old photos of the ice caves from when the Inn was still standing, or perhaps someone has posted these in an older thread?

Touron is a nougat of Arabic origin made with almonds and honey or sugar, without which it would just not be Christmas in Spain.
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Scrooge
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PostFri Oct 26, 2007 12:10 am 
From the first page of this thread, touron. hmmm.gif This includes two pics taken in 1920. They are the only ones I've found so far. Probably there are more in the UW's history collection, but I haven't seen them on line.
Scrooge wrote:
However, as far as permanence of the lefthand lobe is concerned, compare these two pics taken 83 years apart.
Big Four Ice Cave in (fall) 1920. ...... Man standing on glacier (circled) for scale.
Big Four Ice Cave in (fall) 1920. ...... Man standing on glacier (circled) for scale.
Big Four Ice Cave in November, 2003, when the snow and ice was pretty much at the level it's been all this century.
Big Four Ice Cave in November, 2003, when the snow and ice was pretty much at the level it's been all this century.
Although there's been some erosion of the rock face, I've drawn lines along key fractures to show how similar the snow level really is.
Scallops - in a side tunnel of the B4 Ice Caves, 2002
Scallops - in a side tunnel of the B4 Ice Caves, 2002
But, in these, taken at the bottom front of the glacier, the annual layers slant down towards the back of the glacier, a significant change in orientation.

Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you....... Go and find it. Go!
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peltoms
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PostSun Nov 04, 2007 5:29 am 
Two recent google earth tours examining every significant glacier in the Wind River Range and Glacire National Park have been completed. Take a look to see the up close look at how these glaciers are faring. Wind River range and Glacier national park

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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peltoms
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PostTue Nov 06, 2007 8:35 am 
Back in business
In July Nichols College changed its web management strategy. I was not given access to the glacier files for the first time since 1996. As of yesterday I have access again and will make changes going forward utilizing the great pictures you have taken and submitted. The battle was over retaining the same url, I wanted to keep it, they said impossible, now it is possible. There is a new file on Big Four Glacier courtesy of Scrooge.Big Four

North Cascade Glacier Climate Project: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/
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