[Larry]

If you think about it, why on earth would that picture mean anything to anyone without the controversy now surrounding it? I agree with this point. When I saw the avatar, I really didn't even think about it much, and did not realize any significance to it. I think it is a pretty benign image. I just sort of chuckled and said to myself, "That's a funky avatar, looks like something uphill somewhere". I gave it no more thought. As far as trip reports...I think I'm in the same camp with all of you to some extent. We all seem to unanimously want to preserve integrity, but have slightly differing opinions on various facets of that preservation. Actually, the view from Closed for painting opened my eyes to my own possible hypocrisy, and that's okay, because it allowed me some self-analysis which hopefully will do me some good. I regret writing some of the trip reports of fairly pristine places that I've already written, not for the overall content, but for the directions that I put in there. I now wish I had not put in so many references to "how to get there", because I've tested the search engines, and sure enough...some of the keywords pointed directly to my trip reports. So, I've probably impacted those places. I might be old, but I'm still learning.

[Malachai Constant]

[MtnGoat]

[Backpacker Joe]

Mal's got a point. I think that more often than not people have been to worried about certain areas. And that their fear of over use of these areas is unfounded. I just dont see some place that is out of the way, and not now over used as becoming so just because some people have posted trip reports. TB

[Larry]

So why does this mean we have to somehow popularize sensitive places which currently get little visitation? It's perfectly possible to get people jazzed about the woods without having to direct them to pristine places they can stumble across all on their own. That's what I meant to say in all those paragraphs I wrote. I'm starting to get a little frightened...Mtn Goat says some things that I actually agree with! So...then, do you agree with Malachai about the two-edged sword? In other words, do you agree that by popularizing the sensitive Tank Lakes area, it could have saved the road access? And further...would that not then have opened the sensitive area to degradation? Two-edged sword, indeed. I certainly have seen the degradation of the Enchantments over the years, since first visiting in 1959. Unfortunately, even with controls, the area is looking a bit beat up in comparison. So, to me, that is another reason for not "talking up" a pristine area. Not that it would have done much good in the Enchantments...such an awesome place that it was it's own worst enemy for attracting hordes. Can't blame anyone for wanting to go there. But...the smaller, pristine places scattered about are still offered a degree of protection, at least for a while, by not being publicly revered. Off topic: Speaking of the Enchantments in 1959...I remember the glaciers coming clear down to the upper third of the area. Crystal Lake and Isolation Lake were actually glaciers. Inspiration Lake had a small glacier on the headwall, calving active ice into the lake. The Snow Creek Glacier was probably 300% of what it is now, with the portion on Little Annapurna an active slope glacier with crevasses. There were small pocket glaciers all over the place, in the last stages of activity. Wow...the rate of recession has been phenomenal. And, there was no trail from Snow Lake up to Viviane...just the barest hint of a boot track. From Viviane on up, not even boot tracks. Ahh...memories...perhaps I'm getting old and weepy. Editing this thing: BPJ - I saw your post about not being too concerned about trip reports possibly ruining a pristine area. But, back on the Enchantments for a minute...I revisited the Enchantments in approximately 1963, and the whole nature of the trail had changed in the four years since 1959. There were ribbons and cairns from Snow to Viviane, and a strong boot track throughout the upper basin, complete with wandering braided paths. This was all by word of mouth, as I don't think that there were yet published guides to the area (I'm not certain of that, just don't remember any). There was a feeling that things were getting a bit overused even then. This was, of course before the Internet. So...I'm thinking that we really DO need to be careful on such a thing as the Internet, since it's such an efficient information source now. So..I don't agree with your statement BPJ...but I won't call you a porch monkey or anything like that, okay?

[#19]

[#19]

[jenjen]

I guess the distinction for me when deciding whether or not to post anything on a pristing area is ease of access. I don't think many people are going to get to Tank Lakes even if you give them step by step directions -- the terrain is just too hard. Especially when you consider that 90% of folks will not go off trail, period. The problem with the area that avatar is pointing to is that it isn't hard to get to. It's close enough and easy enough that I can see lots of people trying it. The only saving grace right now is that its only in a scrambling book (most people only trail walk), and that Iodine Gulch isn't named on any map I have ever seen. Unless you already know what that points too, its just another odd sign. It would be heartbreaking to go there and find lots of bare dirt and stupid way trails to nowhere, the way Snow lake and Lake Byrne are.

[Dayhike Mike]

[MtnGoat]

I can't get over how often the defense of popularization drifts back into the idea that if it's not easy, somehow that's enough. Enchantments. That's all that needs to be said. 5000'+ feet of gain over many miles was not enough to defend it from the need to have mandatory permits. It doesn't matter how hard something is to get to, people will go there if they have attention focused on it. IMO, argue that it doesn't matter if more boots go there, argue that one person's report doesn't make a difference, make all the other arguments you like, but as for "it's hard", Enchantments.

[touron]

[peppersteak'n'ale]

too late, I've already invited the entire city of Seattle and portions of Idaho to visit Iodine Gulch this weekend, based entirely on Marylou's avatar. Expect buses and trains to be arriving there by early Saturday morning. Get your ticket before it's too late!

[polarbear]

Hey Pepper, too bad for you. The place became so popular last week that now you need permits. Me and my friends won the lotto for Saturday. It should be fun. I suggest you study the TV guide carefully.

[#19]

Final thought. This special little area is unique because of its proximity to 100s of hikers. Can't think of anywhere that might warrent descretion more.

[Allison]

Dude. You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing by using that picture as my avatar, except for that you are giving out all kinds of information to boot. Enough already!