[#19]

THE INTENT OF THIS POST IS NOT TO RE-HASH THE TRAIL PARK PASS ISSUE. I NEED LEGAL ADVISE Yesterday when returning to the Rachel Lk trailhead from Alta Mt I found a $50 parking ticket on my windshield. I've only recieved the "please donate" $3 envelope before. It says I have to cough up the bucks or appear within 21 days. What happpens if I ignore it? Mini trip report. Trail becomes 50% snow covered 1/2 mile from TH and becomes continuous 1/2 mile before still covered Rachel LK. Streams running hard and fast, but crossing of Box Canyon Cr is doable. Summit ridge has many mini snow aretes that resemble motocross-like "whoopdy-doos". Makes travel interesting. Nice waterfalls along the way.

[Allison]

I'm not a lawyer, but this is what I would do: Buy a pass now, and then go plead your case in whatever Kangaroo Court of Parking Passes there is. If you are an objector, this may be a problem, but if it's just about getting out of the ticket, it will probably work. I know people who got out of the fine in years past this way. BTW I am one of those jackasses with the "No Fee Demo" sticker on the back of the car, and the permit on the dashboard, so if you don't want to listen to me, then don't. At least I managed to get mine without paying for it!

[Backpacker Joe]

Other than buying the bloody things, you have to keep to trail (or no trail) head areas that arent frequented by the MAN! TB

[firehiker]

Sounds like you have not learned a lesson from the $3 envelope. Pay up or volunteer a couple of work days with the WTA to earn a free permit.

[Mike Collins]

Allison has a good idea. It is incomplete though. Go to the gas station by North Bend to buy your trail pass and give the pimply kid behind the counter ten bucks to predate the purchase receipt showing that you bought it the day before the ticket. Then go to the Kangaroo Court with young kids (borrow them if you don't have any). Try to dress them in torn clothes and put some dirt smudges on their faces. Then plead the mercy of the court. I bet you the judge will be buying you lunch by the time the case if over.

[Backpacker Joe]

Mike is the man. Smashing Ider! Hey, no victim, no crime! TB

[#19]

Well BPJ, this was my fist time in the immediate area so I didn't know it was a hot spot for the man to check. Only about 5 cars there. How do you avoid the ticket on all your Enchanment trips? firewalker, I use the little yellow envelopes for firestarter. Allison and Mike's idea isn't bad, but it requires me to burn gas and time. So I should have asked is what are the repercussions for not paying and ignoring the ticket. Anyone know?

[Randy]

Ouch. Here's another one for ya. A party of four is forced to turn around 50 ft from the summit of Stuart (a very worthy trip nonetheless). Double ouch: they return to find they have a flat tire on their truck at the Ingalls Lake trailhead. Triple ouch: they have a $50 ticket for not having a forest pass. Needless to say they weren't the most happy bunch and we felt kinda bad for them. This is the first time I've seen the $50 dollar tickets. It has the same format as one I recieved last year for having my truck in the wrong place over in the Cle Elum area. I would have had to drive to court in Yakima to fight it with no guarantee of success; it was easier, and most likely cheaper, to just pay the ticket.

[pay up]

I think everybody should just stop whining abut the dang permits already !! For crying out loud, they aren`t going away anytime soon. It is only, what 25 dollars. It is no different than a fisherman or hunter paying for thier license. And if anyone wants to say they are paying for the meat, I can tell you, it is cheaper to go to the store. They do it for the experience of just being out there, SOUND FAMILAR. Anyway part of the money goes to maintain the trails YOU hike on anyway and if you say: " well I don`t hike on those trails", then you don`t need the permit since it is only required at trailheads.( or within a 1/4 mile) No I don`t work for the government, no I am not a fisherman or hunter, I am a Hiker/climber just like most of you and am not rich by any means.

[#19]

Hey pay up. Did you read the red warning at the top of this thread? But hey, that really conviced me and all the other cheapskates. Thanks foir the less than original thought.

[Newt]

Who issued the ticket? FS or county? NN

[Backpacker Joe]

LOOK, Mr. HIDE MY IDENTITY pay up guy. Why dont you log in and show a little back bone! No matter how you justify it this is just another BIG GOVERNMENT excuse to TAX people that are ALREADY paying ENOUGH taxes. Our ferderal taxation MORE than covers this forest service bullsh##! You're just another tax and spend lefty! B.S. to you and anyone else who trys to call this crap benign. What are you going to say when the forest service NAZIS (who GIVE away logging road bulding for free at an increadible cost to the tax payer) charge you 500.00 for a yearly permit? This is just another EXCUSE to TAX people because they can! The soviet union used to tax people on perpose incredbly high rates for the purpose of controling them. When you can only afford vodka (government subsidised) then thats all you can do! It literally controlled what/where these people could do, and where they could go. Right now the NEW Russia has a 15% flat tax rate! Isnt that terribly irronic? The former COMMIES are MORE democratic in there fiscal practices than are we! Tom B

[smokeydon]

Hey backpacker joe, I have no problem logging in. I was wondering how long it would take you to come out of the woodwork. I am not another tax and spend guy, contrary to what you may think. I was just merely stating a fact. For you to think that one day they will raise rates to $500.00 is rediculous. Not everything is a government conspiracey. As far as I know, and corrct me if I am wrong, I don`t believe that has happened to a fishing and hunting license. I will agree that the government taxes TOO MUCH and they waste our money in a lot of ways, but if that is where you are going with this there are obviously bigger fish to fry than park pass permits. I guess I just believe in paying my way and not being a freeloader. Seeing how I don`t do a lot of volunteer trail maintenance I figure this is the least I can do. That is great that Russia has a 15% flat tax, too bad thier economy is in such poor shape. I like the old U.S.A. and for those of us who don`t were free to leave.

[Backpacker Joe]

Hey, I'm a CONSERVATIVE (read conserve our liberties) How the hell was I to know who you were useing that log in? It was my point to get you to show yourself. Rediculous huh, tell that to so many other government fees. Our car tabs werent always this expensive. Besides, that was exactly my point, we ALREADY DO PAY ENOUGH TAXES FOR THIS KIND OF THING! Pay our fair share my butt! YOU can pay if you feel under priviliaged, but I pay enough to the feds already! The point is it DOESNT stop here. In 1980 would you have felt so benevilant at a 35-50 dollar TRAIL PARK PASS? Hell no you wouldnt have. You would have said, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!?!?!?! Well, I say so now! Tom B

[polarbear]

Show up at the next fee demo protest $50 does seem excessive. They would never have dared charge a fine like that in the first few years of the demo program.