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Backpacker Joe Blind Hiker
Joined: 16 Dec 2001 Posts: 23956 | TRs | Pics Location: Cle Elum |
marylou wrote: | I thik this is a terrific idea, but just to clarify, this is not the intent of the thread, so much as to find ways to educate people who are already backcountry users. |
Oh, sorry about that. Hmm, I think sites like this are a good start. Also talking to people that you see out there about this kind of thing might be good.
TB
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
"If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide."
— Abraham Lincoln
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blue_tuberosa Uber Geek
Joined: 07 Jul 2004 Posts: 235 | TRs | Pics Location: Roslyn |
Disclaimer... I've scanned this thread so this MIGHT have been mentioned, but....
Are you folks familiar with the 'Mountain Stewards' program that they've got going up in Skagit County? http://www.ncascades.org/programs/detail.ldmx?workshop_id=1085
I've been thinking of trying to get a program like this going for the Alpine Lakes Area. Probably paralleled with a reveg plan.
I've been seriously talking with some FS friends about it and also with the folks up at the North Cascades Institute.
Basic premise... start a volunteer training program... provide free education, skills training, 10 essentials, basic trail maintenance, map/compass stuff, plant ID, yadda yadda. In return for the free program - volunteers give back X hours on the most popular trails - doing things like trail maintenance, telling folks to be nice to the Alpine Lakes, monitoring reveg sites, etc.
It's still in the brain-candy stage, but I think it could work.
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done.
- Justice Louis Brandeis
Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done.
- Justice Louis Brandeis
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jenjen Moderatrix
Joined: 30 Jun 2003 Posts: 7617 | TRs | Pics Location: Sierra stylin |
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jenjen
Moderatrix
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:58 pm
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Quark and I ran into one of the mountain stewards on our way to Coleman Glacier. She was handing blue-bags out to climbers and making sure they knew where the privys were, and just generally teaching folks how to camp lightly. I guess I hadn't really thought about it before now.
Fantastic idea, blue!
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
If life gives you melons - you might be dyslexic
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hopalong Tree Climber
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 732 | TRs | Pics Location: Edmonds |
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hopalong
Tree Climber
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:14 pm
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What about having a newbies or Q & A section.
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hopalong Tree Climber
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 Posts: 732 | TRs | Pics Location: Edmonds |
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hopalong
Tree Climber
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:32 pm
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I guess that's already been said. So I second (or third or fourth) the motion.
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:55 pm
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An absolutely critical part of the wilderness ethic teachings is explaining just why the item is so important. Simply telling someone to hang their food a certain height, etc, will not convince many of them to actually do it. People need to believe that the rules or advice make sense and is important for reasons they understand. Most folks don't blindly follow orders or advice. In the woods, people make their own choices, and must believe in what they are doing or they won't do it. At least some won't, I mean. So each item should be in say two columns, one stating the rule or ethic, the other stating the reasons for, and importance of, the rule or ethic. Like that it takes 100 years for meadows to recover from trampling, to use an example already posted. This really hits home, 100 years. Trample a meadow, and it will stay trampled until your grandchildren have grandchildren.
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Allison Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:33 pm
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Excellent point, Sluggo. I'm really not sure where we should take the discussion, but the knowing "why" makes the whole thing make a lot of sense. Sometimes it's far too easy to say "do it because it's right," but if you know the "why" well, then, it's all to easy to do good by the land, the critters, the rocks, and the flowers.
Oh, and the people.
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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LittleHikerMom Mom to a little girl
Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Posts: 1855 | TRs | Pics Location: Everett, WA |
I learn these things by hiking with ye more experienced types. That's why I keep hiking with you guys. I do need to learn more.
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Chief Paulina Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 486 | TRs | Pics Location: Ochoco country |
Gotta ask.. Who did that 100 year study?? And where???
I would think that a thread titled by a name most newbies can relate to is a good idea. We 'vets' could offer up advice and reasons and have discussions about our individual views on the subjects. The newbies would likely join in with questions. It would be similar to 'Thread Length' in the end, like someone said.
"Life's been good to me so far" - Joe Walsh
"Life's been good to me so far" - Joe Walsh
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solohiker Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2004 Posts: 1081 | TRs | Pics Location: issaquah |
frankm3 wrote: | It seems that a sticky titled "general hiking and newcomer information" with links (examples, not intended to be all-inclusive) to:
-'Leave No Trace' ethics,
-proper food hanging technique,
-bear aware information,
-and Mountaineers (or similar listing) of 10 essentials
...would fit the bill pretty well for this purpose. |
This kind of info is readily available on wta and mountaineers sites and I think forest service and nps, too. Problem is it works only for those seeking it, who are generally ones that would be good stewards regardless of what they read. Education is absolutely the only way to get people to make good choices, but inspiring people to choose to be educated can be a challenge.
One distinction this site has over others is the frequent discussion of destinations reached only by non-maintained trails, and off-trail hiking. People just learning the ethics of hiking need to appreciate the difference between staying on a popular maintained trail to protect the surrounding meadows and hiking off trail using a map, compass and LNT principals. This difference may seem obvious to most, but not to everyone. It's when people begin to assume that off-trail is fine anywhere/everywhere, and trails are for wimps that the trouble begins.
I have never been lost, but I'll admit to being confused for several weeks. - Daniel Boone
I have never been lost, but I'll admit to being confused for several weeks. - Daniel Boone
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Quark Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:17 am
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The media doesn't help, either.
While there was a burn ban in effect, and the 30 Mile fire was still raging, and after it killed 4 forest fighters, one of the local newspapers printed an article about how to grill your food over a campfire, and included receipes for martini's and other booze drinks. I fired off an email to the reporter about the ill timing of the article about the booze and campfire combination during a burn ban and after the fire deaths. I got a reponse saying the article had been previously planned, and the newpaper gives the public credit for having sense (or something to that effect).
Today, an ill-informed reporter included this old tip for camping in the rain - the ole "digging a moat around the tent" trick (middle of the article):
Digging a moat
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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jimmymac Zip Lock Bagger
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3705 | TRs | Pics Location: Lake Wittenmyer, WA |
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jimmymac
Zip Lock Bagger
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:06 pm
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Not exactly. The parents were said to be "passing the custom on" to their kids.
"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
"Profound serenity is the product of unfaltering Trust and heightened vulnerability."
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Lagerman UnAdvanced User
Joined: 07 Mar 2004 Posts: 1314 | TRs | Pics Location: Crab'n on the Hood Canal |
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Lagerman
UnAdvanced User
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:11 pm
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Quote: | While there was a burn ban in effect, and the 30 Mile fire was still raging, and after it killed 4 forest fighters, one of the local newspapers printed an article about how to grill your food over a campfire, and included receipes for martini's and other booze drinks. I fired off an email to the reporter about the ill timing of the article about the booze and campfire combination during a burn ban and after the fire deaths. I got a reponse saying the article had been previously planned, and the newpaper gives the public credit for having sense (or something to that effect). |
I dont see your connection between shrimp on the barbie and men dying at a forest fire. You look into things way too much. If the world has to stop spinning because people died, then it would suck. They put out an article about cooking on a camp fire. IN THE SUMMER You dont barbeque during the winter.
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Quark Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:26 pm
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The point is this:
You have the media promoting nifty-keeno ideas about campfires to people who may not even know to consider burn bans. Joe Schmoe could read the article, think it's a great way to spend the weekend, run out to Bartell's and buy a tent and other camping gear and head out to camp for the first time in his life, along the side of a FS road, utilizing the ideas in the newspaper. He and his wife, who don't normally drink, get schnokered on martini's and the fire rages unchecked. Afterall, if it's in the paper, it must be O.K.
Yeah, the paper doesn't make people do things they wouldn't normally do - but folks are looking for new things to do. The paper gives them ideas.
The "moat" was a quote, sure, and moat-digging was not expressly promoted. I know that. But it's sorta like when a lawyer yells "objection!" and the judge says "sustained," - well, the idea is planted nonetheless - regardless of whether it's right.
The first article did not mention the burn ban, and the second article indicated what a great idea digging a moat was - so good that it's being passed off to children.
Newcomers reading the article camping at Bathtub Lakes will say, "Hey, it's raining! I read about this really great idea once...."
If it's mentioned, new folks to the sport will think it's ok.
That's the point. The Pacific NW writers of media who know little about the Pacific NW aren't helping with stewardship matters.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Lagerman UnAdvanced User
Joined: 07 Mar 2004 Posts: 1314 | TRs | Pics Location: Crab'n on the Hood Canal |
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Lagerman
UnAdvanced User
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Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:33 pm
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Well, I agree with you that maybe alittle warning about checking your local burn bans would have been a good thing to do, just not to the extent you do I guess.
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