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McPilchuck
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Joined: 17 Dec 2001
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Location: near Snohomish, Wa.
McPilchuck
Wild Bagger
PostSun Jun 30, 2002 10:53 pm 
Another fatal accident upon Big Mountains: Word just in from the hub, a solo climber descending at the 18,000 foot level fell 1,000 feet to his death. Specifics not available yet and or whether the individual had summited. In relation to big mountains, I also heard there were two different rescue attempts (I think successful) on Rainier this weekend due to climbing in bad weather.

in the granite high-wild alpine land . . . www.alpinequest.com
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jcb
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jcb
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PostTue Jul 02, 2002 10:41 am 
death
I just returned from Denali and can appreciate the area he died on. The descent from Denali Pass, while not technically difficult, is not very forgiving in a fall. Sadly, this Canadian paid the price for not bringing along a partner.

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Anonymouse
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Anonymouse
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PostTue Jul 02, 2002 1:32 pm 
..and now we will have to pay for having the body recovered. shakehead.gif

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Tom
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Tom
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PostTue Jul 02, 2002 1:54 pm 
Bushwhacker, it might seem a little cold, but I think Anonymouse raised a point worthy of discussion. Should the public pay to revover a body? I wouldn't think twice about the cost to save a life but covering the cost to recover a body does make you wonder if there aren't more appropriate uses of public funds - or is this covered by climbing permit fees?

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Newt
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001
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Location: Down the road and around the corner
Newt
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PostTue Jul 02, 2002 6:04 pm 
To climb Denali the climbers must pay a $150 use fee that is used to offset rescue and other related costs. http://www.nps.gov/dena/home/mountaineering/home.html this is not the best of years to be climbin' I be thinking. Far to many deaths regardless of the reasons NN frown.gif

It's pretty safe to say that if we take all of man kinds accumulated knowledge, we still don't know everything. So, I hope you understand why I don't believe you know everything. But then again, maybe you do.
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Anonymouse
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Anonymouse
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PostTue Jul 02, 2002 8:01 pm 
Bushwhacker, I apologize if I caused upset or grief, it wasn't my intent.
Tom wrote:
Should the public pay to revover a body? I wouldn't think twice about the cost to save a life but covering the cost to recover a body...
Having worked in emergency services, body recoveries and all that it entails, the amount of money and resources expended on getting back a body are inordinate. I will not make a decision that risks a life to recover a body. They ain't going anywhere and can wait for a while if needs be. Yes, it is necessary for the friends and family to have closure, but not at the same risk and expense as saving a life. A $150 climbing fee just about covers the cost of preflight planning of a helo and it's crew. If you want to start engines and fly away, you're running about $750/hour.

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Bushwacker
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Joined: 28 Jun 2002
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Location: Chaweng Beach, Koh Samui, Thailand
Bushwacker
Comfortable
PostTue Jul 02, 2002 8:40 pm 
No need to apologize. I agree with your point and believe me I didn't mean to come across the way I did. I'm not sure what the answer is. I guess the way I see it is that maybe tax dollars spent on recovery is better than some frivolous ways of spending that occurs in other, should I say, government endeavors. Leaving are fallen comrades behind is pretty harsh. Hey it's all up to us. I'm sure if people are determined to find a better way, one will be discovered. BW cool.gif

"Wait by the river long enough and the bodies of your enemies will float by"...Sun Tsu
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Newt
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Joined: 21 Dec 2001
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Location: Down the road and around the corner
Newt
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PostWed Jul 03, 2002 4:41 am 
Considering that there were over 1300 attempts on Denali last year that brings them in around $195,000. 11 rescues. Not all of which were air supported. As with trail maint., rescues are also manned by volunteers. If the Army, Navy or Air National Guard pitch in then I consider this to be real life on the job training for which we pay for in one fashion or another. I'm not saying that the fee offsets the total cost (tho it may) but should make a considerable dent in the out of pocket expenses to the taxpaying public. Also as with some other public services the rescued may be presented with a bill. for services rendered. Those climbing any big mountain know the risk and are willing to take it. You need to pay to get up and you need to pay to get down. Part of the risk, part of the expense. If one can't afford rescue expenses then they should consider rescue insurance. I do advocate safety, knowledge and proper equipment. Far to many don't consider this. Even when talking hikes. It always happens to the *other folks*. Then they become the *other folks*. NN smile.gif

It's pretty safe to say that if we take all of man kinds accumulated knowledge, we still don't know everything. So, I hope you understand why I don't believe you know everything. But then again, maybe you do.
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Bushwacker
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Joined: 28 Jun 2002
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Location: Chaweng Beach, Koh Samui, Thailand
Bushwacker
Comfortable
PostWed Jul 03, 2002 5:32 am 
Great insight Newbie! It sure makes you wonder what the pricetag is nationwide. I'm sure it's staggering. And you're right, it always happens to the "other guy". The striving for personal accomplishment, trying to be macho, or trying to impress others may at any moment rise up and bite you in the butt. Hopefully caution and common sense of ones own capabilities will be the driving force behind our adventures. From the great line from Hill Street Blues "Lets everybody be careful out there" BW

"Wait by the river long enough and the bodies of your enemies will float by"...Sun Tsu
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