| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
AmandaEmily
Member
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 15 | TRs | Pics
Location: Colville, WA |
| HJT wrote: | | Stefan wrote: | | Waterboy wrote: | | It is my opinion that Olympic National Park and Forest are being shortchanged by Washington Trail Association (WTA). |
This is why I do not support the Washington Trails Association.
I know of two other people who do send money to them either for their unbalanced devotion to limited trails.
Why? Their work parties will always go to either Deception Pass or Dishpan Gap EVERY YEAR.
But they will ignore dying trails. The WTA overdoes trailwork to the same trails EVERY YEAR.
The WTA does not believe in the balance of maintaining multiple trails. |
Yup, I'd have to agree with the above statements. I have noticed that WTA always does trail work on the same trails year after year and never on trails that could really need the work, otherwise these "ignored" trails will probably disappear over time. Then we'd hear from people griping about not having any trails to hike on. It would make sense for WTA to spread their resources around a little better and do trail work on the less traveled trails. |
As an east-sider, it would be nice to see work parties in this area. It is the Washington Trail Association after all, not the Puget Sound Trail Association. I'd go out and work on the trails, but I'm not going to drive 6 hours to a work party in the Cascades.
|
| Back to top |
  
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
|
 Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:46 pm |
|
|
WTA also did work on the Big Tree trail near Republic, as well as Badger Mtn in Spokane. It's difficult to do far-reaching work parties due to the organization being only so big, with it's base on the westside, but they're trying to branch out more.
I think others had been scheduled on the east side over the years, but were canceled due to low sign up. They have a good contingent in the Winthrop/Twisp area now thanks for a great volunteer crew leader over there who is willing to lead work parties.. Took a few years for it to take, but it did.
If you want to establish a work party on the east side, get some folks together, choose a trail and call WTA. See what happens. Can't hurt to try. If they can get a good, reliable volunteer crew leader over there, that would help.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:05 pm |
|
|
| wanderin wrote: | | Some mighty big talkers out there...and some just making up "facts" to suit their cause. How many have actually phoned WTA with questions regarding which trail they "choose" to work on?? If anyone actually picked up the phone, or emailed, I think you would find that WTA does not "choose" the vast majority of trails to work on. |
I do not support the philosophy of WTA, so I do not donate to them.
Here is an example of why.
They are going to Dishpan gap AGAIN. The trail is in perfect shape.
Here are trails that are dying that I know of and have been on currently:
Freezeout Creek trail from Lightning Creek. This trail has over 200 trees down on it. This trail has not been touched in probably 12 years.
Diamond Creek trail to Lake Creek trail. Trail was destroyed by Farewell Creek fires several years ago. Trail is in poor shape and will die due to neglect.
Here's a similar scenario.
You have two cars. You want both cars to be operational, and you have a limited budget. One car needs a transmission replacement, otherwise it will die. The other car has a bad paint job, but still runs fine. What are you going to do with your money? I personally would choose to replace the transmission becuase I want both cars to be operational. I can deal with the poor paint job.
On the other hand, the WTA from my perception wants to run 700 Series type BMW trails. Perception is reality.
The WTA can do what it wants to. I do not agree with their philosophy.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:47 pm |
|
|
WTA doesn't choose the trails it works on. It participates in descisions, but it doesn't choose them.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:52 pm |
|
|
| Quark wrote: | | WTA doesn't choose the trails it works on. It participates in descisions, but it doesn't choose them. |
The WTA can not choose trails to work on?
You mean the US Forest service gives orders to the WTA to work on trails?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:58 pm |
|
|
| wanderin wrote: | | Regarding trail neglect...there are many instances where the USFS has made the decision to abandon a trail. Green Trails Maps folks run into this when preparing updated maps, or there is an update to 100 hikes, the USFS requests that GreenTrails (or 100 Hikes et al)no longer print a particular trail, the FS wants to "put it to bed". Why? Heck if I know, but I could pick up the phone and call the local forest manager. Hard as it to believe, WTA does not make these decisions. |
Let me see if I get this straight. The WTA fully supports and makes it known they support the blockage of the Dingford gate to make the road eventually go to trail, but they make no effort to help change the opinion of the USFS of these dying trails? I for one have not seen any.
The WTA wants more trails. Yes, that is their organization.
I have been to Dishpan. NO it does not need repair. Not one single section. Like I said, the WTA wants 700 series BMW trails when we can do with Honda Civic trails. And I am not the only one with that opinion. I am just the one voicing it.
Perception is reality.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:08 pm |
|
|
| wanderin wrote: | | Stefan, are you saying, as part of a professional trail crew, that Dishpan needs no maintenence? Three years is a long time to forego annual maintenence... |
Try approximately 12 years with the Freezeout Creek.
Try approximately 10 years on the Eureka Creek trail.
Try approximately 10 years on the Monument Creek trail.
Try 4 years on the Diamond Creek to Lake Creek trail.
I bet a main reason why the US Forest Service puts a trail to bed is becuause horse packers don't go there, and they have no interested people wanting to maintain a trail. If someone, "volunteered" to take care of an abandoned trail, I bet the US Forest Service wouldn't mind. Funds are an issue. I have never met a US Forest Servie person not wanting any maintained trails so they have less visitors.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:16 pm |
|
|
When WTA has a work party at Dishpan, for instance, or Dewey Lakes, they're actually working on other trails in the area as well. "Dishpan" includes N Fk Sky, the PCT N and S of Dishpan - including that very rooty, mucky area just S of Indian Head, and Bald Eagle Trail.
The weeklong trips are in places that are appealing for a volunteer to work and live in for a week.
If you want to see if they can target a favorite trail, give them a call, and sign up to work - that always helps.
But yeah, I agree that often a place is overrun with work - but if they're a favorite with the volunteers that work in that area, there's not a whole hell of a lot anyone else should say about it. By the way, did you ever sign up for Round Mtn when they were trying desparately to ressurect that trail? No? Well, no one else did either, so all 9 of those work parties were canceled, one at a time. Now it's a lost trail. DId you sign up to resurrect Sulpher Creek? I did, more than onc.e
Give WTA a call instead of complaining on this site.
Whoever complained about the location of Tri-Cities - it's closer to the eastern part of the state than Dishpan - I'm trying to illustrate they DO work outside of Western Washington. It's east of the crest - east enough for my point.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics
Location: Going to Tukwila |
I've already voiced my displeasure with the stairs and the overbuilt / overengineered solutions to a little persistent dampness, so I'll just quote my previous contributions here:
| Quote: | | I'd consider what's been done to the Lake Dorothy trail destruction of the trail. Same with what they're in the process of doing to the Snow Lake trail.
They're overbuilding something that used to be a thing of beauty and bringing more of the industrialized world into the backcountry. Give me pine needles, dirt and roots and oddly placed rocks over bullsh## stairs and crushed rock underfoot anyday. I don't need an 80 foot bridge to cross an 18 inch streambed. I don't want the high stairs in place of my gradual slope and countless water diverters where there was no water problem to start with. The "improvements" they put in place are overengineered wastes of money that hurt my feet and provide no real benefit to anyone involved.
If you want even walkways, go enjoy the paved path around Green Lake. Leave my mountain trails alone.
Just my $0.02 and not directed at you. Just my sentiments to the pointless amount of money they're pouring into improving the DMG trail...which wasn't broken or in need of repair or improvements to begin with |
| Quote: | | There's no two ways around it. The new Dorothy trail is an abomination. Stairs plain suck, and the rooty mess of a trail was better than what we have now...there's simply no way to "gradually" walk up a stairmaster. As far as being "appropriate" for families and kids? Hogwash. If *I*, a 6 foot 4 inch tall male have a hard time walking up those tall stairs, there's no way a 3 foot tall young 'un is going to have it much easier. Whoever engineered them is an idiot.
As far as volunteering, I'd volunteer, but there's no way in hell I'd contribute to a project like this. Again, I'd tell the person managing the project to go 'f' themselves and then take my pack and head somewhere else. |
| Quote: | | In my experience, trails are harder to walk *AFTER* they put in the stairs and such. A lot easy to move gradually up a slope then be forced to take it in discrete (and large) steps. |
| Quote: | The maintenance I saw up towards Dutch Miller Gap was a joke. They're blasting the crap out of trees and rocks and anything else that gives the trail character. The trail was perfectly passable, but they're hell bent on making it wheelchair accessible or something (paved ramps up the talus slopes). Never realized the horse riders were such a powerful lobby.
The maintenance I saw up toward Dorothy was abysmal. Again, they're taking any character that the trail had and replacing it with hard on the knees, stair-stepped terraces. Mind you, this trail *was* pretty bad and in need of erosion control, but I'm not sure it needed stairs all the way to the lake. I found the previous terrain (roots, rocks, and all) a whole lot more passable than the high-stepping staircase action. Ugh.
I don't like the heavily engineered feeling I get in these newly renovated stetches of trail. I'm in the wilderness for a reason...to experience the wild nature of the countryside, not to be pandered to and pampered like a sissy city boy. (Edit: no offense, Randy!  )
Cut through the major blowdowns. Replace an aging or washed out bridge with a simple, rustic single log bridge. Use old-fashioned techniques to divert running water off of the trail.
But leave the major terraforming, stairs, and paved jogging path back in the city! |
For my $0.02, I'm fine with the WTA crews focusing on the same damn trails again and again. I find the "improvements" that these crews bring kill the hike for me... Better that they just keep focusing on destruction of a few useless trails than for them to expand their scope and begin tarnishing the real gems of the backcountry.
Allow me to be coy for a moment: it's my unscientific opinion that the REAL reason that these sort of "maintenance" projects keep the trail in pristine condition is that nobody in their right minds would subject themselves to the torture of a backcountry stairmaster if they knew it was there. So they go once, experience the trauma, and never return. *Voila!* Immediate reduction in wear and tear.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:35 pm |
|
|
| Quark wrote: | | By the way, did you ever sign up for Round Mtn when they were trying desparately to ressurect that trail? No? Well, no one else did either, so all 9 of those work parties were canceled, one at a time. Now it's a lost trail. DId you sign up to resurrect Sulpher Creek? I did, more than onc.e
Give WTA a call instead of complaining on this site. |
NOPE. I did not sign up.
Not complaining about the WTA. I think they are a great resource for trails. Not complaining about horsepackers either--they follow the same philosophy as WTA--which is to maintain the trails they want to. Very greatful for them clearing the trails at their own time and their own expense.
I do not agree with the WTA philosophy of overdoing trails, and therefore I will not give money to them becuase it seems hypocritical of their own philosophy to be not trying to do anything for dying trails. If the WTA changed their philosophy, then I would give money to them. I don't give money to horsepackers either.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:44 pm |
|
|
OK stef, I gotcha.
Dorothy Lake trail was done by a contractor.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dayhike Mike
Bad MFKer
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 10958 | TRs | Pics
Location: Going to Tukwila |
| Quark wrote: | | Dorothy Lake trail was done by a contractor. |
For me it's more about *WHAT* was done rather than who did it.
Stairs is stairs. Damage done.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
"Ignorance is natural. Stupidity takes commitment." -Solomon Short
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stefan
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 5093 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Stefan
Member
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:05 pm |
|
|
| Quark wrote: | | OK stef, I gotcha.
Dorothy Lake trail was done by a contractor. |
Don't tell anybody but I like you too. I don't agree with all your philosphies.
You probably think I am okay, but you don't agree with my philsophy about me picking my nose all the time.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 14152 | TRs | Pics
|
|
Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
|
Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:07 pm |
|
|
 You and I "met" by arguing on WTA's TrailTalk years ago. It was about the FS buying new trucks on taxpayer's dollar.
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."
Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
|
| Back to top |
|
|
reststep
Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2001
Posts: 4757 | TRs | Pics
|
|
reststep
Member
|
Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:51 pm |
|
|
| In regards to the Dose Road Waterboy wrote: | | So long as no one sues, it looks like we are talking at least two or three more years before the road re-opens. |
This is a quote from the Summer 2007 Olympic Park Associates newsletter.
"Olympic Park Associates and Olympic Forest Coalition are prepared to appeal a decision that would reconstruct the road across the upper slope or along the river. We will take legal action if necessary to protect the
Dosewallips watershed."
The newsletter is a pdf file and can be found here
This is why I say if the road ever reopens it will probably not be in my lifetime.
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate NWHikers.net earns from qualifying purchases when you use our link(s). |
