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l
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l
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 6:03 pm 
l

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Grizzy
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Grizzy
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 6:19 pm 
Thank you for sharing this report! Great info, and great pictures as well up.gif  up.gif  up.gif

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All the birds have flown up and gone;
A lonely cloud floats leisurely by.
We never tire of looking at each other -
Only the mountain and I. ~Li Po~
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goats gone wild
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goats gone wild
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 6:35 pm 
Thanks for all the good history  up.gif   Really enjoyed it.

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.....leaving me wanting to return over and over in what ever capacity that may be, even if one day my knees are too old and I can only see the mountains from my porch.

Jason Hummel
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Quark
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 7:56 pm 
Shackinator;

Thats cool about Madison Falls.  I wandered around there this past spring, and definately noted the fruit trees.  I was all excited about it, but had no idea of it's history.  Now I need to go back there so I can get all tingly, thinking of the Press boys chawing and spitting around there.

Directly across from Elwha CG is a picnic area.  While I was there this past spring, I took a social trail hoping to get down to the river.  It's very dark and dense back there, but not very far in is a platform that once was a site for a cabin or small house;  there is a tiny cement porch and 2 steps as well.  Do you know anything about that spot o' land?

There were lots of homesteads way back when.  It's neat to note ordered shrubs or fruit trees in a row way out in the middle of nowhere.

Such a beautiful area.  Thanks for the pictures of the campground.  Looks like the infestation of the invasive herb robert plant isn't the biggest problem that campground has right now.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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Malachai Constant
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Malachai Constant
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 8:52 pm 
My first hike when I was 6 or so was from Olympic Hot Springs Resort to Boulder Lake I remember a suspension bridge which seemed like Capalano to me but was actually quite small. There were wood pools with stinky water but it was my first Olympic experience wub.gif

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"You do not laugh when you look at the mountains, or when you look at the sea." Lafcadio Hearn
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bobbi
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 9:43 pm 
sure glad the storm was after goats gone wild and i did wolf creek trail.

hey, goats, we should go back and check out the trail for blowdowns!

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goats gone wild
Mr. Goat



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goats gone wild
Mr. Goat
PostWed Nov 14, 2007 10:27 pm 
bcfc53 wrote:
sure glad the storm was after goats gone wild and i did wolf creek trail.

hey, goats, we should go back and check out the trail for blowdowns!

Are you kidding?  Now you want me to run up the trail and jump "hurdles" at the same time.   embarassedlaugh.gif

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.....leaving me wanting to return over and over in what ever capacity that may be, even if one day my knees are too old and I can only see the mountains from my porch.

Jason Hummel
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Magellan
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Magellan
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PostWed Nov 14, 2007 11:11 pm 
How would the shelters get placed?  Helichopter?

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mtngrl
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PostThu Nov 15, 2007 9:09 am 
Beautiful pictures. Thanks for the storm update, and info on the meadow too. Never taken the time to explore the meadow, but will next time up there.

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reststep
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PostThu Nov 15, 2007 4:22 pm 
Shack, nice report and pictures.

Regarding your question about the shelters.  I don't really know the answer about building them out of non native materials but I assume they might have thought there would be less opposition if they did not have to destroy any wilderness to construct them.


Now on the topic of why the shelters have not been placed.

An ogranization by the name of Olympic Park Associates is against using helicopters to place them at Home Sweet Home and Low Divide.  I don't know much about this organization but they seem to be very good at using the courts to to get their way.  This is the same outfit that is against reopening the Dosewallips River Road.

Here is a link to their home page.    Link

Here is a link to a big blurb they have on their website about the shelters.  You may have to scroll down to see it.      Link

Here is a link to a blurb on their website about the court decision about the shelters.  Again you may have to do some scrolling.     Link

I wish the Park Service would just go ahead and place the shelters but I guess they can't do that.  There have been shelters at both locations ever since the 30's as far as I know.  I think they were built by the Civilian Conservation Corps.

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"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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reststep
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PostThu Nov 15, 2007 5:30 pm 
That was just a guess about the shelter materials Shack.  You are right though they could be made out of native materials that did not come from wilderness.  I don't know why they emphasize that.

I did not know there were that many groups opposed to the shelters.  That is interesting.  I am surprised to see the Mountaineers on there.  That group is responsible for some of the first trails being built in the Olympics for their early outings.  Like with all things they have changed over the years.

What is interesting is that I think the park service was at one time against the shelters also.  Not those specific 2 but in general.  The group that I think is called Friends of Olympic Shelters rebuilt or refurbed several in Olympic National Forest.  I don't know of any they worked on in the park.  I am not even sure if they are still in existence at least I can not find any info on them.  I believe that Dick Pargeter may have been involved with them however.

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"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir
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RodF
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PostThu Nov 15, 2007 11:13 pm 
Olympic National Park had 90 trail shelters in 1969. (section 1.5.7 of link)
When ONP became wilderness in 1976, 47 remained.
It had 33 in 1992.
Today, only about 17 survive (and most of these are in various stages of disrepair: missing roofs, partially collapsed, etc.).
In my opinion, this is a tragedy.  Olympic trail shelters are indeed well down a "slippery slope"...
to complete oblivion, if Olympic Park Associates have their way.

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Quark
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Quark
Niece of Alvy Moore
PostThu Nov 15, 2007 11:40 pm 
Isn't the new material a composite of some sort?  Kinda like what they use for park benches?

re: shelters - the shelters in the Olympics were a subject in several old Signpost magazines from the late 1960s. I don't recall if they were FS shelters or Parks, but the story is likely the same.  The shelters were constantly trashed out by users, boards ripped off and used for firewood by users, and vandalised.  The shelters were diligently cleaned and repaired by the land manager time and time again.

Manager finally got fed up with the b.s., and they began to eliminate the shelters.  The magazine called for readers to send letters, but it's not likely that happened.  Some shelters were given a reprieve by private organizations who promised to maintain them in the future;  I don't recall which ones, or if these shelters still exist.

So they went the way of many fire lookouts - they were attractive nuisances, trashed out by users, expensive to clean up after users and vandals, so they were torched.

Perhaps the public has learned a lesson and will take care of new shelters put in place; unfortunately, since the 1960's, a lot more environmental concerns are out there who are always happy to throw a wrench in the plan, so the public has to fight tooth and nail to prove itself.

I'll have to start citing these magazine articles.  Anyone who finds these old magazines oughta read them.  There's a lot of history about the "whys" in them.  A lot of it goes back to a public that didn't have a lot of "leave no trace" education.

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"...Other than that, the post was more or less accurate."

Bernardo, NW Hikers' Bureau Chief of Reporting
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geobob
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PostFri Nov 16, 2007 12:36 am 
Thanks for all of the interesting information about the shelters in ONP.  Personally, I think they are an important part of the park's legacy and I feel their historic significance should be considered just as seriously as the argument to revert the park to a true "wilderness".

I think that any decision to alter long standing park policy and the "status quo" that has existed for many decades should only be done as a result of overwhelming evidence that to not make the change would result in irreparable harm to the park environment.

In regards to the park shelters, I don't think their continued existence in any significant way threatens or diminishes the park environment or experience.  Therefore, in my opinion, to change park policy to appease a few vocal special interest groups is very short sighted.

Similar arguments, I think, can be applied to the Dosewallips Road, which has historically been one of the primary entry points to the ONP interior.  I think it would be a tragedy if this road is not re-established.

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I think there's an easier way on the far side
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RodF
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PostFri Nov 16, 2007 10:07 pm 
Shacknasty Jim wrote:
Circumventing an unfavorable ruling for ONP would entail rewriting the wilderness statute which would be very difficult.

I believe this is incorrect.  To quote Burgess' decision:

Quote:
page 12: A long established rule of statutory construction is that where there is a specific provision that governs an issue, it takes superiority over any general provision. Here, the Wilderness Act under which the Olympic Wilderness was designated, is the specific provision, while the National Historic Preservation Act, among others earlier mentioned, is the general. This rule allows the NPS to administer the Olympic Wilderness for other purposes only insofar as to also preserve its wilderness character.

page 8: There is no specific provision for maintaining and/or replacing shelters within the Olympic Wilderness; the law creating the Olympic Wilderness Area specifically allowed the National Park Service to upgrade maintain and replace only one structure - an underground powerline - as long as the maintenance and operation was consistent with wilderness management. P.L. 100-688, 102, 102 Stat. 3961 (November 16, 1988).

page 11: There is no assertion that Congress has authorized the appropriation of funds to NPS to build the new shelters at issue here and to place them in the Olympic Wilderness.

A simple rider on any act of Congress, explicitly allowing "the maintenance and/or replacement of shelters", would suffice to overrule this decision.  This would clarify that Congress' original intent, in creating Olympic Wilderness, was to preserve the park, not alter it over time.  Perserve the 43 shelters that then existed, not obliterate them.

Anyone who spent a little time listening to what the public had to say when these shelters were displayed in Port Angeles in 2002, or read letters to the Peninsula Daily News editor, knows they have overwealming public support.

Shortly after the Burgess decision issued, someone burned the Falls Shelter on the upper Gray Wolf River to the ground.  One must wonder whether some OPA supporter took an "Earth First" action?  Unpopular legal actions are slower than arson, but the end is the same: vandalism.

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