[Scrooge]

[GeoHiker]

Thanks for the update Scrooge, I wish I had known about the meeting I would have gone. That's much better news than shutting it down all together. Many of the regulations are a bunch of #$%^ and they are being guided by some desk jockey that's never seen the Sultan Basin. I wonder how much Homeland Security plays into the equation. This is a major water source, so I bet they have their fingers in what's happening. We are lucky it's stayed open as it has. BPJ, Tolt and Chester Morse was open long ago. There was some awesome 4x4 roads on the Tolt. Both watersheds along with Sultan were logged to death, so you can't tell me that some hiking and access is any worse than what's happened previously. I know some loggers that fished Chester Morse and there are some HUGE fish in there. They would stop off on the last run and fish for a couple hours. I have some pics buired in a box somewhere of a couple stringers of fish. Nothing was under 4 lbs. Btw, there used to be some awesome fishing in Spada back when it was promoted as an outdoor place to visit.

[Sultan Guy]

Please bear in mind that much of the information in this thread and on this website regarding the situation in the Sultan Basin has just recently been posted-like within the past few months. The relicensing of the Jackson Hydroelectric Project is required by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) and they have a very detailed explicit process that the licensee (Snohomish County PUD) must go through. This process began in 2005 and we are nearing the end, you could say we are in the ninth inning. There has been much hard work by all the stakeholders involved and many concessions made by everyone as we searched for consensus on diverse interests ranging from fishing, hiking, power generation, kayaking, drinking water supply, etc. The terms of the new license will be between 30-50 years so FERC wants the licensee and stakeholders to envision the best long term management plan for the project. It has been a long road to get to this point and I have been involved from the beginning. It may appear that the PUD has been extremely nice with regards to recreation and this is true but the ulterior motive at play is what satisfies FERC. The more changes that the PUD incorporates into a new proposed license that satisfies all stakeholders then the more inclined FERC is to issue a longer term license meaning that the utility can save major $$ in the future by not having to go through this entire process for a longer time. I see Boulder and Greider Lakes as possibly getting more overnight users and less day hikers. Not necessarily bad or good just a change. I like all types of hiking One other very positive thing for hikers is the new trail we are likely to get built by the USFS paid for by the PUD. The USFS owns an isolated parcel of land below Culmback Dam in the Sultan River Gorge. For many years I have been exploring this gorge both by hiking and whitewater kayaking. Very stunning place with many waterfalls and rare low elevation old growth. We successfully argued that money spent on a trail for recreation was better then money spent on multiple lake recreational picnic sites that are underutilized. This new trail will be an excellent alternative for day hiking to Greider Lake. Where else do we have short easy trails to low elevation old growth that close to Seattle? I have lots of pictures of this gorge and will post some soon to this thread so everyone can see what is down there. Despite all the positive things from the relicensing process we still have some dark days ahead of us. As Scrooge has mentioned the WA DNR in a completely separate process is creating the new Morningstar NRCA. This will be the largest NRCA in the state of Washington and will contain 30,000 acres that they basically want to limit recreation on. Their main management goals with an NRCA is conservation. What about the public? DNR will be planning to have at least one public meeting to get feedback on the boundaries and management of the Morningstar NRCA. I was told that this will likely occur this winter at a TBD date. This will be you chance to speak up for either new trails, better maintained trails. or just legal access to old abandoned roads. Stay tuned...

[Dogpatch]

[Sabahsboy]

Trails must be re-opened to Cutthroat Lakes and Bald Mountain to ease pressures on other trails. The north access of Cutthroat Lakes, Walt Bailey, needs to reopen...but there is no pressure on the agencies involved on the access way (road) to do so. Budget is always used as an excuse; indeed, if agencies sought priority funding and worked with Congresspersons and Senators, I think there would be reopening of Walt Bailey Tr and a host of other popular trails, including the rebuild of bridge to the ever popular and loved Big Four Ice Caves. Opening a new, short, low land trail to a small (?) old growth stand at Sultan River sounds neat, but would we be sacrificing all the other routes possible? Why not run new trails to Grieder Lakes or other locations? Why not reuse the existing routes of roads as trails, esp. the route beyond our now defunct Boulder Lake Trailhead (goes into a gorge and maps show trail going a long way, possibly to old mining sites(?). Since there is a drop of use of trails, partly due to ever lessening mileage and interest of routes plus difficult access or washed out access; and the ever rising interest in virtual play and just plain use of seat of your pants on-line presence (and the ever rising problem of overweight children and adults, once the domain of "couch potato"), agencies are taking advantage of the decline in public participation in decision making about OUR LANDS. Bureaucrats take advantage of every positioning they find to peel away intrusion into planning process and the rise of their agency leader(s). I have worked in the public sector and soon was engulfed in the lingo and aims of "us vs them (John Q. Public)". You quickly learn to approach "citizens" as "the enemy" and work them into corners so you can corral citizen opposition in favor of the most direct means to achieve department or agency goals and the pride of the overseeing powers (municipal, state, Fed., etc.). Philosophy is by group and subtle brain wash and success is measured in number of defeats of the public interest in projects, budgets, etc. The silliness is well exemplified by transit planning and the development of plans that achieve goals of public interests but budget defaults. If projects must undergo approval via public vote, then all sorts of pressures keep planners up all night to route the issues toward success for the planning goals and budget priorities (SeaTac Airport is an obvious case in point...just why the runway actually had to be built in the way it was and if it will stand under severe and real seismic events remains to be seen...the tallest retaining wall in the world....that is not an engineering feat, it is pure stupidity. And the rush for fill encouraged removal of glacier debris from Vashon Island...well, public stood fast a while and the fill came anyway. Now, the ancient glacier outwash will be mined and shipped from docks at Maury Island, anyway....and the water table at the already poorly watered island will drop and drop and make residential occupancy impossible. But, Glacier NW will never tell you that about their "gold mine site" of Maury rubble fill. We are so short sighted....maybe it is human nature, maybe it is American culture, but, in 50 years, what will Maury Is. be like; or, anywhere near Seattle...or USA? Or, in a hundred years? We seem to avoid the all too obvious and suspend will and intelligence (a so called human characteristic) toward short sighted success, profit, profit margins, greed. Hey, if we are to be successful inhabitants of Planet Earth, we must regard the future in a way that is not to be abolished, obviscated and put on the back burner. The oil reserves ought to be for mankind in the future, not consumed to the last drop, now. The ancient forests needed to be preserved as more than a few last stands for photo ops and proud ecological planning, but as ubiquitous environments, as water resources, biologic resources, etc. You get the point. And, we are humans that love to explore; it is in our genes. That is what trails are about....to explore and open the door on the soul toward grounded and heavenly Cosmos...those that solo summit know what I am saying....maybe we all understand and have encountered that special moment.

[Hulksmash]

Some thing just hit me...It seems when ever a piece of private property get's purchased by some developer, and gets sub devided for more houses...A big sign that says proposed land use action goes up. Sultan basin is public land, why is there no signs of propsed land use action posted? I have made a point, when up there, to notify hikers of the plans to decommision the road. All of them are supprised and unaware of the plan. Perhaps posting a flyer, at Onely pass, Grider, and Boulder lake's trail heads. With names, e mail address, and perhaps snail mail address of who to send a letter would be usefull.

[Sultan Guy]

Here is a few pictures I have from the Sultan River Gorge below Culmback Dam. A fun place to explore. Lots of very low elevation old growth and waterfalls.

Sultan River canyon

Top of canyon exit rapid

Looking upstream to large double ledge drop

Above canyon exit rapid

[Sabahsboy]

Explain more about your photos. That looks very interesting...but how accessible is it?

[Sultan Guy]

[Scrooge]

Neat pictures, Andy. I can see where I'm going to be spending part of the winter.

[Sultan Guy]

Today Scrooge, Hulksmash, and myself attended the latest PUD relicensing meeting. While most of this meeting focused on the fisheries issues we did discuss recreational issues in the Spada Basin and there was representation from DNR. We asked specifically regarding the status of the South Shore Road decommissioning (abandonment) strategy to the DNR and were told that the road between Grieder and Boulder that was recently dug up will be eventually regraded to a foot trail standard at some point in the future. Unfortunately this is funding dependant so in other words might be a few years. Get used to hiking up and down giant ditches for the near future to access this beautiful lake TH. I still did not get a good reason why the abandonment and the conversion to a trail could not have been done at the same time. IMO the DNR needs to do a better job of explaining themselves and their plans in the Spada Basin.

[Sabahsboy]

Sultan Guy, you have said it all. That road would have been a fine trail as it was. Bumpy for vehicles, great for walking. Can DNR and others submit request for funding with a budget? Sounds all too simple to fit their process.

[Scrooge]

Retraction requested. Over in the Trip Reports forum, in The "new" trail head to Boulder lake thread, Scrooge said

[Backpacker Joe]

Thanks Scroogy.

[Hulksmash]

As Andy just pointed out the DNR is not finished regrading the road. So this is not exactly what the DNR envisioned as a pedristrian trail

Decommissioned road in sultan basin..static point access

The road "abandonment" and trail building simply come out of a different budget. The regrade does seem to be funding dependent. When that funding will be available? I don't know. So for now get used to walking those ditches. The plan to "abandon" two more miles of road before the Greider Th still stands. This mean's more trenching and berms. My fear is that when these two extra miles get trenched, no funds will be available to regrade, or say a by pass trail. (And yes a by pass trail was briefly mentioned, because the road passes through prime beaver territory. ) Leading to a drop in useage, resulting in abandoning Boulder and Greider trials. More public pressure might help free up funds, so it's important for more of us (hikers) to attend future meetings. One thing i did catch, from the Forest service rep. Is that the Forest service is not done with there abandonment of the North Fork Sky road, and Rapid river road. So trenches and berms are in these locations future. Lets hope there's funding available to provide a hiker and equestrian friendly trail.