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mossy mom Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 1852 | TRs | Pics
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http://masoncountydailynews.net/news/1401-simpson-considering-cogenerating-biomass-facility-on-shelton-waterfront
Going to build one just like the one in Tacoma. The aroma of Tacoma is coming to ONP and ONF!
Biomass Plants Are Not The Solution
By Chris Matera
Special to the Worcester Business Journal
01/04/10
We need to get serious about global warming and energy generation, but wood burning biomass plants are a false solution, which will worsen our problems, not help to solve them.
While the word “biomass” conjures up pleasant images, the promotion of this old caveman incinerator technology as “green” is a colossal “greenwash” by the timber and trash industries attempting to cash in on lucrative public clean energy subsidies.
One can become quite cynical to learn that our “green” energy subsidies are promoting the cutting of forests and burning them in dirty biomass plants instead of promoting the truly clean energy solutions such as solar, geothermal, appropriately scaled and located wind and hydro, and most importantly conservation and efficiency.
A Biomass Reality Check
Contrary to industry claims, biomass energy does not reduce carbon dioxide emissions, it increases them.
Biomass energy produces 50 percent more carbon dioxide per megawatt hour of energy than coal. That is not a typo, and is based on numbers from the proponents' own reports. Since burning wood is so inefficient, burning living trees is actually worse than burning coal. Biomass burning releases about 3,300 pounds of carbon dioxide per megawatt, while coal releases 2,100 pounds. Gas-fired plants release even less, about 1,300 pounds.
Not only is burning trees worse than coal for carbon dioxide emissions, but it produces similar levels of other pollutants such as carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide, volatile organic compounds, sulfur dioxide and particulates. The McNeil biomass plant near Burlington, Vt., touted by biomass proponents, is the number one pollution source in the entire state, emitting 79 classified pollutants, according to planethazard.com.
Massachusetts’ current proposals would build 190 megawatts of biomass energy that would require burning 2.5 million tons of wood each year. This is massive considering that the average total timber harvest in Massachusetts is about 500,000 tons. This means that at a historical logging intensity of 19 tons per acre, 100,000 acres of forest would need to be logged every year in Massachusetts for biomass alone. At this rate, all Western and Central Massachusetts forests could be logged in 16 years. Even our state public forests and parks are targeted for a 1,082 percent increase over historical logging levels to fuel the power plants.
Burning all this forest would only increase Massachusetts power generating capacity 1 percent, yet al- ternative, economic conservation and efficiency measures, which cost a third of new energy, could reduce our energy use by 30 percent.
At this time of ecological and economic crisis, there is no reasonable argument for forcing taxpayers to subsidize new pollution, carbon dioxide emissions, forest devastation, and carbon-based fuels for minimal amounts of power. These policies will worsen air pollution, increase greenhouse gas emissions, deplete forests and drain our public coffers, the exact opposite of what we need to be doing right now.
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skookum olympus Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Posts: 246 | TRs | Pics
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Um... that aroma? Paper plants, not incinerators. And the fuel? I was under the impression it was waste wood - the limbs, dust, and chips from making lumber. Why would they cut down trees to burn?
I find this option to be greener than building another dam to fuel OUR regional power needs.
..... to be whole and harmonious, man must also know the music of the beaches and the woods. He must find the thing of which he is only an infinitesimal part and nurture it and love it, if he is to live.
~Wm. O. Douglas
..... to be whole and harmonious, man must also know the music of the beaches and the woods. He must find the thing of which he is only an infinitesimal part and nurture it and love it, if he is to live.
~Wm. O. Douglas
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mossy mom Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 1852 | TRs | Pics
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skookum.ouzel wrote: | Um... that aroma? Paper plants, not incinerators. And the fuel? I was under the impression it was waste wood - the limbs, dust, and chips from making lumber. Why would they cut down trees to burn?
I find this option to be greener than building another dam to fuel OUR regional power needs. |
Biomass energy produces 50 percent more carbon dioxide per megawatt hour of energy than coal.
The start out burning so called "waste wood" and then they burn tires, sewage sludge and anything else they can get their hands on. There is not enough wood waste to power a $250 million dollar biomass plant. They are using government subsidies for the this so called green energy that is not remotely green.
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treeswarper Alleged Sockpuppet!
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11276 | TRs | Pics Location: Don't move here |
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treeswarper
Alleged Sockpuppet!
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:12 am
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You probably don't know it, but if there are any sawmills around there, you've been living by a biomass energy plant for years. Sawmills have been burning their waste or sawdust for some time to supplement their electricity. Even the small mills--a very small alder mill in Onalaska for instance. Their kiln is powered by burning their sawdust and the cedar sawdust from the cedar mill next door. Stop by and they might give you a tour. It is Alexander's Mill. The highway goes right by it. If you don't make the corner, you'll run into it. I believe our bigger, local mills also utilize their sawdust.
No tires, no plastics, they burn sawdust and chips. I don't notice Onalaska being any smokier than any other place. In fact, having small plants might help air quality. We ruralites might be paid for our yearly collection of forest debris, and be encouraged to deliver it to a plant, instead of just burning it on our property. Yes, we still are allowed to burn our slash in some counties.
Here's a quick article explaining how it works.
http://www.hrt.msu.edu/Energy/Notebook/pdf/Sec4/Wood_Biomass_for_Energy_by_USDA.pdf
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
What's especially fun about sock puppets is that you can make each one unique and individual, so that they each have special characters. And they don't have to be human––animals and aliens are great possibilities
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HunterConservationist Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 663 | TRs | Pics Location: Renton, WA, USA |
Mossy Mom wrote: | Biomass energy produces 50 percent more carbon dioxide per megawatt hour of energy than coal. |
Why is that?
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Slugman It’s a Slugfest!
Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 16874 | TRs | Pics
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Slugman
It’s a Slugfest!
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:49 pm
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Mossy Mom didn't write your quote, she was quoting an article. So you should ask the writer of the article why. But since the article writer says he took the info from the reports of the proponents of the bio-mass generator, you should ask them.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12831 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:23 pm
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Lessons Learned from Existing Biomass Power Plants
So apparently they're burning shredded tires at a couple facilities, and the Tacoma plant is burning old asphalt shingles, but I'm still looking for the plant where they're burning old sewage sludge.
So, MM, how about some documentation other than the above-cited post?
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6720 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:42 pm
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I've built many of these and they all burn wastewater sludge.
Or I should say they try to burn as much as they can depending on how dry they can get the sludge.
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Allison Feckless Swooner
Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Posts: 12287 | TRs | Pics Location: putting on my Nikes before the comet comes |
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Allison
Feckless Swooner
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:57 pm
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Burning poop?
Ugh.
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
www.allisonoutside.com
follow me on Twitter! @AllisonLWoods
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Schroder Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 6720 | TRs | Pics Location: on the beach |
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Schroder
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:13 pm
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AllisonW wrote: | Burning poop?
Ugh. |
From a municipal wastewater treatment plant the closer analogy would be to burning peat. It's gone through biological treatment & is then drained and pressed.
Almost every pulp mill in North America has a multi-fuel, primarily wood waste, boiler to generate process steam for heat and power production. There's a huge one at Kimberly-Clark in Everett, Simpson in Tacoma, Weyerhaeuser & Longview Fibre in Longview, etc.. They also have wastewater treatment systems that generate a lot of sludge, where the primary solid material is cellulose. It's chemically contaminated and must either be burned or hauled to a landfill. Some of these mills are next to municipal treatment plants and take their sludge as well. I've seen them feed shredded tires and other waste to them but in very small portions, whatever the air treatment systems will handle.
To be called biomass plants & green is creative re-labeling
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rossb Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2002 Posts: 1679 | TRs | Pics
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rossb
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:52 pm
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If they just burn wood, then they are carbon neutral (not counting the energy needed to transport the wood). The article is misleading. The carbon in coal, or even natural gas, is not renewable (or, to be more precise, takes a huge amount of time to renew). The carbon in wood, on the other hand, is gathered from the air (it's what trees do).
Of course, if they start burning other stuff (like synthetic tires) then all bets are off. Sounds like that problem could be solved rather easily with the appropriate regulation.
Even with proper regulation (a wood burning plant that only burns wood) it certainly isn't "the solution" or even part of a big solution. You just can't get that much energy from wood. Plus, it might require a lot of shipping (which requires a lot of energy) and contributes a lot of particulate pollution (the article got that right). This type of energy generation makes a lot of sense for a lumber mill. As part of general energy production: not so much.
The best solution is to greatly increase efficiency and replace coal, natural gas and oil with wind, solar, geothermal and probably nuclear energy (hopefully using new generation Thorium reactors or something similar). With the exception of the nuclear stuff, it's not that complicated (from a technical standpoint). From a political standpoint, it is extremely complicated (and rather discouraging).
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Dale Member
Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 139 | TRs | Pics
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Dale
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Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:13 pm
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http://www.seattlesteam.com/index.htm
Seattle Steam is a privately-owned utility that provides reliable and sustainable heat to approximately 200 buildings in Seattle's Central Business District and First Hill neighborhoods. Seattle Steam's mission is to deliver a reliable, cost-effective and efficient source of heat that benefits its customers, the environment and the Seattle community.
<snip>
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RodF Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 2593 | TRs | Pics Location: Sequim WA |
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RodF
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Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:27 am
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HunterConservationist wrote: | Mossy Mom wrote: | Biomass energy produces 50 percent more carbon dioxide per megawatt hour of energy than coal. |
Why is that? |
The intrinsic heat value of the fuel is lower.
Wood is ~70% cellulose, which is a carbohydrate (C H2O)n equivalent to carbon and water chemically bound together. In sugars, n = 6 or 12; in starches n ~ hundred, in cellulose n ~ thousands. When burned, heat is gained from the C + O2 -> CO2 part, but absorbed by boiling the water part into steam, which is lost up the stack. So have to burn more wood than coal to get the same amount of heat.
(That's the simple answer. Detailed answer is in enthalpy of combustion, and that it isn't practical to use a condensing boiler to recover the latent heat in the exhaust steam.)
However, as rossb says above, wood is not a fossil fuel. The net CO2 emitted is much lower than coal. How much lower depends on how the wood is harvested, which affects CO2 storage in forest soils. In the case of the Shelton plant, it will make beneficial use of waste from thinning operations that would otherwise rot or be burned as slash. So it have very low net CO2 and may be a net plus to air quality. It should be an actually green, not "painted green", energy project.
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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HunterConservationist Member
Joined: 31 Jul 2008 Posts: 663 | TRs | Pics Location: Renton, WA, USA |
RodF wrote: | The intrinsic heat value of the fuel is lower.
Wood is ~70% cellulose, which is a carbohydrate (C H2O)n equivalent to carbon and water chemically bound together. In sugars, n = 6 or 12; in starches n ~ hundred, in cellulose n ~ thousands. When burned, heat is gained from the C + O2 -> CO2 part, but absorbed by boiling the water part into steam, which is lost up the stack. So have to burn more wood than coal to get the same amount of heat.
(That's the simple answer. Detailed answer is in enthalpy of combustion, and that it isn't practical to use a condensing boiler to recover the latent heat in the exhaust steam.)
However, as rossb says above, wood is not a fossil fuel. The net CO2 emitted is much lower than coal. How much lower depends on how the wood is harvested, which affects CO2 storage in forest soils. In the case of the Shelton plant, it will make beneficial use of waste from thinning operations that would otherwise rot or be burned as slash. So it have very low net CO2 and may be a net plus to air quality. It should be an actually green, not "painted green", energy project. |
Excellent response, unlike earlier groundless assertions.
And as you mention, the key is that wood isn't a fossil fuel and essentially using it as a fuel for generation essentially doesn't add CO2.
But then, I am skeptical on all facets of global warming:
a. That it exists at all.
b. That it is primarily human-caused.
c. That we can afford to do something about it.
d. That we should attempt to do something about it.
e. That cap-and-tax is a reasonable method for doing anything.
f. That any cooling method is safe and effective.
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RodF Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Posts: 2593 | TRs | Pics Location: Sequim WA |
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RodF
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Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:42 am
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off-topic:
(HC, as you yourself say, there are facts, and there are assertions.
I hope someday you might sort them out.
Meanwhile, the facts are more than sufficiently certain to justify action.)
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
"of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt" - John Muir
"the wild is not the opposite of cultivated. It is the opposite of the captivated” - Vandana Shiva
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