[wiki summary]

since i'm out of work, and the weather's starting to turn, i'm thinking of grabbing some pruners and small saws and heading out to some of our less maintained trails to do a little de-brushing. my knowledge of really bad trails is limited, so i'm looking for suggestions. i'm mostly willing to cut logs and branches, but not so much into the idea of shoveling or repairing any part of the dirt/rock trail itself as other organizations like WTA are much more knowledgeable and capable in that arena. thanks! Marble Pass or Troublesome Creek. Mineral creek to Park lakes. Marten Lake, Middle Fork. Short bad section in an avy chute. Scatter Creek to Grindstone, although when the road opens again this will probably get official attention. Lennox Creek trail, up the North Fork Snoqualmie. That's got lots of brush to lop South Cascade River to South Cascade lake! Mt. Phelps (N. Fork Snoq.) - lots of downed trees to be cleared, trail overgrown Pitcher Mtn. (Carbon Ridge) - At least through the meadow area, if not beyond Mineral City to Poodle Dog Pass

[grannyhiker]

The main problem with bootleg brushing is that usually the well-meaning folk who do this do not clear the regulation 6 feet wide. As a result, any crew going in there has to finish the job. It's a good idea to find out what the proper specifications are before indulging in such activity. As I mentioned earlier, a number of ranger districts encourage individuals who want to get out and do this and instruct them in the proper procedure. Here's a quote from one of the trail maintenance gurus with the PCTA and Trail Keepers of Oregon:

[Sky Hiker]

Even if you were to do anything under 6 feet it is better than nothing. It makes it easier to cut the other bush with even a small trail thru.

[GeoHiker]

Here's what the FS thinks about unauthorized trail maintenance in the MBSNF. This has to be the dumbest sign I've ever seen.

[Hulksmash]

Looks like some one edited that a little when they printed it.

[GeoHiker]

Often times it's up to the land managers to interpret the rules and how they see them. I was very surprised how the rules were bent and interpreted in OR when I worked down there. More common sense and empowering the people rather than relying on set rules. The way it should be IMHO. We seem to have an over abundance of city/out of state people running policy in our FS. If I see/hear another rule, road, this or that slapped up because of Fish policy I'm going to go postal! The salmon runs are at all time record highs right now. I see they (WDFW) are now allowing we keep unclipped native fish. Why you ask!....because there are so many freaking salmon coming back in the rivers. There is no native fish btw, that's just a policy fantasy that keeps fish biologists and state workers on the payroll. Hatchery fish have been such a big part of the runs for the past 60-70 years there's no pure native run left in our state that I know of. That's fine and good, the fish have come back very well. Drop all the endangered crap and don't micro manage every freaking foot of our lakes, rivers and streams. I know this has nothing to do with what iron is asking about. But in the long run it does. We have people out there believing this policy crap in the name of Fish, so it all trickles down eventually. Enough is enough ok!.......

[Ski]

A point not mentioned in this thread is that the lands management agency in charge of a particular trail or area might have a reason for closing and/or not maintaining a given trail. Sometimes it's money. Sometimes it's Grizzly Bears. Sometimes it's a safety issue, as in the case of the little side-trail that used to drop down off the Wright Meadow approach to Craggy Peak down into the cirque above Blue Lake. ( South Cascades ) Sometimes there are other issues that authorities won't divulge except in private one-on-one conversations where they know they're not being recorded or going to be quoted in print. ( Two I still use come immediately to mind. ) A guy could pick up the telephone, call the local District Ranger Office, tell them his name is Ronald McDonald, and inquire about a particular trail and the reason for its closure or seeming abandonment. If the answer is "money" or "lack of staff", ask if they'd object to your breaking in that new pair of loppers. What's to be lost other than the cost of the phone call? Vigilante stuff might be appropriate in some places, but I can think of too many where it would not be to say "hack away". re: trail width I will never forget Carl Pangratz ( trail crew supervisor, ONP ) walking me around a loop trail up at Kalaloch with arms outstretched, telling me "THIS is how wide I want this cleared out." Do it right or don't bother.

[Ski]

[Eric]

One thing that I would certainly look at is whether you want to be clearing deadfall or brushing out trails. As mentioned in other places, brush will grow back. Dead trees do not. Certainly more can fall, but you can't do too much about that. I've always thought Also, there seems to be a lot of talk in this thread about overlap with trail crews and contractors working on those same trails etc. Perhaps I need to spend more time in the ALW or on more popular trails because I am seeing a lot of trails that see zero maintainence or have been officially abandoned so it is a bit odd to hear this sort of chatter as if someone would be doing this work if Iron or other folks do not. It's nice what the volunteer orgs do and what the USFS can pay for but it is clearly not enough. The demand for this is greater than the free labor available. More power to you for whatever you can do to help. Any harm you might do will be relatively inconsequentially to your fellow users and severely outweighed by the benefit to your fellow hikers.

[puzzlr]

George, thanks for your well thought out answer. You raise some aspects I hadn't thought of but have suffered from (e.g. the sharp stalks lurking behind new leaves). But I don't understand this (from someone else, not you)

[treeswarper]

[gb]

I think my favorite forgotten trail is the Cougar Creek trail on Sloan Peak. About a decade ago I hear not many people were finding the old trail across Sloan Creek. I understand it got brushed then up to treeline. Then in 2002-3 a big avalanche destroyed the trail and I understand that someone and his nephew re-established that route. Although the trail is easy to follow now unlike a decade ago, it wouldn't hurt me if someone improved the route off the farside of the river where a big rootball is hard to navigate. There is some vine maple overgrowing the trail for a 100 yard section some 500' or so above the river. I understand there is also a particular alder patch around 3700' that is difficult and that just above that the blueberry bushes have overgrown the trail. This was a built trail and was abandoned years ago by the FS. At 4600' the trail was really built/established in the wrong place as it goes straight up a wallow along the stream. It should have been built crossing the rock slide just above the meadow and then working up and left through a few small trees to meet the trail as it comes back NE from the creek near 4800-4900'. Hmmm.

[Sky Hiker]

A good thing to do if you want to see if the FS will restablish a trail is to contact the ranger stationand talk to their recreation person.

[Quark]

[Jimbo]

What a crock of DUNG. Then can't keep up with what's growing over and falling apart from weather or ?? When I did Deer Creek Pass they were really happy and when I stopped in this summer to say hi @the Verlot R/S the first thing that said ( AGAIN ) was Thanks for brushing that trail out. If someone hadn't done the trail to Helena mines you play hell finding it.. I'm sure there's 100's of more trials that have gotten this free work and to the pleasure of most for doing it.... I always bust a branch or move a rock or try to channel water flow like lot's of others. That $150 fine is Crock.. Who the Hell could have the nerve to fine someone for that...

[Sky Hiker]

Exactly, especially when you are doing a service for them. That is unless you get carried away.