| Previous :: Next Topic |
| Author |
Message |
GrnXnham
Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 363 | TRs | Pics
Location: Graham, WA |
|
GrnXnham
Member
|
 Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:28 pm |
|
|
Glad to see this thread revived. It was one of my favorite threads of all time on here.
|
| Back to top |
  
|
|
Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
|
| GrnXnham wrote: | | Glad to see this thread revived. It was one of my favorite threads of all time on here. |
It could only be better if Flow was riding his bike up the Sky to hang with the grizzlies at the Golden Tunnel
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:08 am |
|
|
| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | Feds backing off 2010 grizzly ID |
Old news
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
|
| BigSteve wrote: | | Ringangleclaw wrote: | | Feds backing off 2010 grizzly ID |
Old news |
Could be, although that is the first mention I have seen of it in the popular press.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:53 am |
|
|
I do not recall when I first heard that the original 14/15 expert panel changed to >7/14, but it was awhile ago, and it's no surprise that the press did not play it up.
In his Ghost Bear presentation, Dr. Bill Gaines -- who headed a recent grizzly bear survey in the WA Cascades -- showed the Sebille pics vs. pics of the same bear from another hiker (ChuckM?) taken on the same day or within a couple days in the same area. Gaines' comparo was a very effective demonstration that anyone, including the experts, can be fooled by photographs.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gb
Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6310 | TRs | Pics
|
|
gb
Member
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:17 am |
|
|
| BigSteve wrote: | | I do not recall when I first heard that the original 14/15 expert panel changed to >7/14, but it was awhile ago, and it's no surprise that the press did not play it up.
In his Ghost Bear presentation, Dr. Bill Gaines -- who headed a recent grizzly bear survey in the WA Cascades -- showed the Sebille pics vs. pics of the same bear from another hiker (ChuckM?) taken on the same day or within a couple days in the same area. Gaines' comparo was a very effective demonstration that anyone, including the experts, can be fooled by photographs. |
I think that is true of photographs and sightings. But there are some differences, size being one of them. If you see a Grizzly from the front (as I have from 12' away) there is no mistaking a Grizzly from a Black bear. A Grizzly is much broader, bulldog-like, and has heavy jowls around it's neck. And then, there are the claws. They are unmistakeable, protruding well beyond the toes. Although these would be hard to see, the tracks they leave behind are not.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
|
| BigSteve wrote: | | In his Ghost Bear presentation, Dr. Bill Gaines -- who headed a recent grizzly bear survey in the WA Cascades -- showed the Sebille pics vs. pics of the same bear from another hiker (ChuckM?) taken on the same day or within a couple days in the same area. Gaines' comparo was a very effective demonstration that anyone, including the experts, can be fooled by photographs. |
Yea, I was aware that opinions from photos by different people of presumably the same bear/same day resulted in remarkably different specie identifications. I think some of that is brought up earlier in this very thread.
Bill told me a few years ago that they are frustrated that they can't get physical evidence of grizzlies in the Cascades, either in a hair trap or poo. I'm thinking the Cascades just aren't good habitat, and unlike wolves, a grizz doesn't go for a six hundred mile walk for the hell of it.
Bill didn't proffer an opinion on the Cascade Pass bear photo at the time, he was too busy fending off wolf questions from my girlfriend and eating wedding cake.
I bet bear caught in the wolverine camera referred to by Jack Oelfke could meet the same fate.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
|
| gb wrote: | | But there are some differences, size being one of them. If you see a Grizzly from the front (as I have from 12' away) there is no mistaking a Grizzly from a Black bear. A Grizzly is much broader, bulldog-like, and has heavy jowls around it's neck. |
That's from comparing western blacks with grizz. I wonder how the big black bears of the middle Appalachians look like in comparison to a grizzly, they are comparable in size.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics
Location: here now |
|
DIYSteve
seeking hygge
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:41 am |
|
|
| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | I'm thinking the Cascades just aren't good habitat, and unlike wolves, a grizz doesn't go for a six hundred mile walk for the hell of it. |
As I understand it from Gaines' presentation: No and yes. The Cascades habitat supported grizzly bears for centuries before settlers killed off the WA population, and huge contiguous portions of suitable habitat still remain in WA Cascades. But, yes, Gaines said that grizzly bears typically do not migrate long distances to find new habitat.
| gb wrote: | | If you see a Grizzly from the front (as I have from 12' away) there is no mistaking a Grizzly from a Black bear. |
I have, but more like 30' at the nearest, including, e.g., numerous sightings when I bicycled from MT to AK (starting 34 years ago last week). Misinterpreting size is not just a problem with photographs, but can also happen real time with binoculars or the naked eye -- this I know from 40 years of birdwatching.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cefire
Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Posts: 523 | TRs | Pics
|
|
cefire
Member
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:20 am |
|
|
| Ringangleclaw wrote: | | That's from comparing western blacks with grizz. I wonder how the big black bears of the middle Appalachians look like in comparison to a grizzly, they are comparable in size. |
Comparable in size? Huh?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gonefishing4ever
Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2015
Posts: 7 | TRs | Pics
|
All that is gold does not glitter, not all of those who wander are lost- Tolkien
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ringangleclaw
Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 1559 | TRs | Pics
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolffie
Member
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 2693 | TRs | Pics
Location: Seattle |
|
wolffie
Member
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:49 am |
|
|
I recently spoke with a man who confidently asserted that the Forest Service has already relocated 24 "problem grizzlies" in the Washington Cascades.
Does anyone have corroborating information about this? How could they get away with doing this without telling us? Black helicopters?
I'm glad I have my beast to warn and protect me.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gb
Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 6310 | TRs | Pics
|
|
gb
Member
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:58 pm |
|
|
650 pounds, then? That is the estimated size of the one in NCNP in 2009. And I'm not too worried about mis-identifying Appalachian black bears in Washington state.
Wolfie, I doubt that. The exploratory meetings are still going on and I think 2017 is the target date.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 7464 | TRs | Pics
Location: The Hermitage |
|
Bedivere
Why Do Witches Burn?
|
Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:42 pm |
|
|
| wolffie wrote: | | I recently spoke with a man who confidently asserted that the Forest Service has already relocated 24 "problem grizzlies" in the Washington Cascades.
Does anyone have corroborating information about this? How could they get away with doing this without telling us? Black helicopters?
I'm glad I have my beast to warn and protect me. |
I have heard people confidently assert all sorts of absurd BS that isn't true. I think the key is that they probably believe it to be.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
