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vibramhead Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 181 | TRs | Pics Location: Olympic Peninsula |
Last week, the last chunk of dam was blasted from the Elwha River in Olympic NP, allowing it to run free from the headwaters to the sea for the first time in a century. This is cause for great celebration!
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NacMacFeegle Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2014 Posts: 2653 | TRs | Pics Location: United States |
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DIYSteve seeking hygge
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 12655 | TRs | Pics Location: here now |
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DIYSteve
seeking hygge
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Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:10 pm
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CHECKTHISOUT Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 Posts: 204 | TRs | Pics
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:37 pm
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"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:10 am
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Pre-dam the salmon runs reportedly numbered over 400,000 per year vs 4,000 now. It will be interesting to see how much recovery actually happens now that the dam is gone.
Given the cost of the removal project, it will be decades before before the cost per recovered fish drops below $10 -- But this project was more about providing (de)-construction jobs and improving the tourist economy in the sixth congressional district.
It will be fun to kayak the newly freed section of river -- I'm going to wait for a bit more of the decades of silt that collected behind the dam to wash down stream first.
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Ski ><((((°>
Joined: 28 May 2005 Posts: 12832 | TRs | Pics Location: tacoma |
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Ski
><((((°>
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Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:21 pm
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I was on the phone talking with ONP's fisheries biologist one day not too terribly long ago when someone walked into his office and dropped a paper on his desk advising him that fish were returning to the river.
He was suddenly like a kid under the Christmas tree. Nobody had any idea things would happen so fast.
The Elwha supported some of the biggest runs on the Peninsula. If only half the runs become reestablished there will be fish aplenty.
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
"I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each."
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vibramhead Member
Joined: 16 Mar 2010 Posts: 181 | TRs | Pics Location: Olympic Peninsula |
RandyHiker wrote: | But this project was more about providing (de)-construction jobs and improving the tourist economy in the sixth congressional district. |
I don't think the Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe would agree with that. They relied on the Elwha's salmon for thousands of years before the dams were put in. In their 1855 treaty with the U.S. Government, they were promised that their fishing rights would be protected, but that promise was rendered meaningless 50 years later when the first dam went in. The Tribe started fighting for removal of the dams long before anyone else did, and what happened last week is the culmination of their efforts. It may be that Norm Dicks had other motives, but Dicks was just one player among many.
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sams rapids Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2009 Posts: 112 | TRs | Pics Location: near the Queets |
Fritz and I were there 10 days ago. He is a retired teacher and fish expert. We were standing on the bridge just below the hot springs road and watched a 3' plus chinook laying eggs. This is above the former lower lake.
Exciting to see this happen this far upriver. Maybe, maybe not, the farthest upriver eggs laid in 90 years.
The former lower lake is changing very fast, lots of bushes and trees and plants everywhere. The mouth is something to see, lots of sand, beautiful new beach.
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:42 pm
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vibramhead wrote: | The Tribe started fighting for removal of the dams long before anyone else did |
I believe the tribe opposed the dams as they were being constructed and for the century following. The Elwha's persistent opposition to the presence of the dams was an important factor. Call me a cynic, but I find it hard to believe that the feds would spend $325m to improve the lives of the Elwha tribe -- unless there were substantial benefits to someone with deep enough pockets to make substantial campaign contributions.
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RumiDude Marmota olympus
Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 3590 | TRs | Pics Location: Port Angeles |
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RumiDude
Marmota olympus
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Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:23 pm
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RandyHiker wrote: | vibramhead wrote: | The Tribe started fighting for removal of the dams long before anyone else did |
I believe the tribe opposed the dams as they were being constructed and for the century following. The Elwha's persistent opposition to the presence of the dams was an important factor. Call me a cynic, but I find it hard to believe that the feds would spend $325m to improve the lives of the Elwha tribe -- unless there were substantial benefits to someone with deep enough pockets to make substantial campaign contributions. |
Undoubtedly there were other voices besides the Elwha tribe seeking the removal of the two dams, including those who stood to benefit financially. But there were also some who simply thought it was the right thing to do and they lobbied hard also. Give those people their due.
Rumi
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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trestle Member
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 2093 | TRs | Pics Location: the Oly Pen |
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trestle
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Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:49 am
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Well done Rumi, but I struggle with diplomacy.
RandyHiker wrote: | But this project was more about providing (de)-construction jobs and improving the tourist economy in the sixth congressional district. |
You've posted some pretty radical comments before but this is a prize-winner.
Please post a citation for this pile of flaming dog poop. Frankly, with that attitude, you might want to stay away from the Elwha. The beauty of recovering nature will overwhelm your cynicism and you might collapse.
There are a lot of reasons the dams were taken out, most importantly they were illegal in the first place. But don't let the law or massive lawsuits against the public or simply that it was right get in the way of your cynicism. Durn Indians don't deserve nothing good anyways, huh? The Indians of WA have tremendous clout in D.C., in case you hadn't noticed. Nothing like a little bigotry to start the weekend.
rant off.
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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Randito Snarky Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2008 Posts: 9513 | TRs | Pics Location: Bellevue at the moment. |
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Randito
Snarky Member
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Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:42 pm
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trestle wrote: | Well done Rumi, but I struggle with diplomacy. |
trestle wrote: |
You've posted some pretty radical comments before but this is a prize-winner.
Please post a citation for this pile of flaming dog poop. Frankly, with that attitude, you might want to stay away from the Elwha. The beauty of recovering nature will overwhelm your cynicism and you might collapse.
There are a lot of reasons the dams were taken out, most importantly they were illegal in the first place. But don't let the law or massive lawsuits against the public or simply that it was right get in the way of your cynicism. Durn Indians don't deserve nothing good anyways, huh? The Indians of WA have tremendous clout in D.C., in case you hadn't noticed. Nothing like a little bigotry to start the weekend.
rant off. |
Drink a little more coffee next time before posting...
In terms of bigotry -- It's not the Elwha that I'm cynical about -- it's congress and the feds.
I think the Elwha dam removal project have been very overdone, long drawn out and overly expensive projects -- it is useful to compare it to the Condit Dam removal project on the White Salmon -- which was completed earlier and at far lower cost.
Perhaps the biggest boondoggle of the whole project is the scam that the private timber companies that originally built the dam (without a fish ladder -- which was required by law even back then) managed to fairly recently pawn off ownership of the dam to the federal government -- sticking the feds wiith the cost of removal.
Condit dam by contrast remained in private ownership and was removed at private expense.
The total Elwha removal and restoration project cost is over 325 million -- while the dam removal itself was 27 million -- where is the other 298 million going to ? Sounds like some form of payola / make work projects...
The dam removal had to wait until the timber industry was so reduced in the area the power generated by the dams was no longer essential and then a bit more.
If the removal was about doing justice for the Elwha tribe, the dam should have been removed much earlier -- say in 1922 when the fish hatchery built instead of a fish ladder was decalred a failure and shut down or any time after WWII.
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CHECKTHISOUT Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 Posts: 204 | TRs | Pics
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RandyHiker wrote: | private timber companies that originally built the dam (without a fish ladder -- which was required by law even back then) managed to fairly recently pawn off ownership of the dam to the federal government |
Then why was Grand Coulee built without a fish ladder?
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CHECKTHISOUT Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 Posts: 204 | TRs | Pics
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trestle wrote: | most importantly they were illegal in the first place |
How so?
trestle wrote: | But don't let the law or massive lawsuits against the public or simply that it was right get in the way of your cynicism. |
The dams were taken out because they were due for relicensing and never would have passed given the state they were in and the fact they no longer provided any sort of useful benefit to anyone. Cost/Benefit makes the decision easy.
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