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Franco
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Franco
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PostFri Jan 09, 2015 6:13 pm 
In the situation, (arriving at camp wet when it is still raining and cold), what I do is to set up the tent as fast as I can (making sure I don't need to re-set it/move it) unpack , set up mat (and sleeping bag in a corner ) then strip off the day clothings, wipe down (quick sponge wash) and then get into my "night" clothing. If still cold at that stage I get into the sleeping bag and warm up. Once warm I then get up to prepare dinner and if I need or want , I put my rain clothing on , put plastic bags over dry socks and then the wet socks over that and walk outside. (both my rain jacket and rain pants fit over my light puffy jacket and pants) Arriving at camp in the rain or sleet is the time when you appreciate having a tent that goes up fly first.

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HitTheTrail
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PostFri Jan 09, 2015 9:20 pm 
Franco wrote:
Arriving at camp in the rain or sleet is the time when you appreciate having a tent that goes up fly first.
You can do that with a lot of freestanding tents by putting the fly on the footprint and then setting up the main tent body inside it one clip at a time. Also, it is sometimes possible to set-up freestanding tents in a treed sheltered area and then carry them out all ready to place in the final location.

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Franco
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PostSat Jan 10, 2015 2:29 pm 
"You can do that with a lot of freestanding tents by putting the fly on the footprint and then setting up the main tent body inside it one clip at a time." Yes you can but the OP is talking about getting cold hands and having problems warming up afterwards. The easier and faster you can set up a tent, the better will be to conserve the heat acquired walking so that you can get into the sack before cooling down. But of course that is just my opinion.

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HitTheTrail
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PostSat Jan 10, 2015 5:17 pm 
I agree with what both of you are saying. My point was that it is usually better to warm up in a dry tent/bag rather then wet ones. Hence, I was extolling the advantages of setting up the rainfly first (as you suggested) and then having a dry tent to get onto.

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RumiDude
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RumiDude
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PostSat Jan 10, 2015 6:54 pm 
Well the OP was asking about clothing to wear so he wouldn't have to get into bed. He is also asking about about summertime at altitude. One of the reasons I try to continue wearing my clothes is so it has a chance to dry from body heat. Taking off damp clothes immediately coming into camp means that the next morning you will be putting on cold wet clothes., which is not fun. A couple years ago I came into camp in the North Cascades at a high mountain pass. The air was cold. I put on my Marmot windshirt over my shirt, which was damp from sweat and a light drizzle. I put my poofy on over thayt and then my rain jacket over the top of everything. I also put on my heavy gloves. By the time I finished dinner, I had warmed back up. By the time I went to bed, my shirt and pants were fairly dry. Rumi

"This is my Indian summer ... I'm far more dangerous now, because I don't care at all."
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wolffie
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PostTue Jan 13, 2015 10:49 pm 
I recommend the Pembroke Welsh Electric Blanket. Not light (25 lbs.) but it carries itself. Fits inside all but the tightest sleeping bags, either on your chest or between your cold feet with its snout out the bottom zipper. If all your clothes and your useless down bag are soaked, this can save the trip. Stuff the dog's foam pad up the back of your parka to keep your back warm when you roll side-to-side. Put the dog's pile blanket over the dog (inside the bag), and bury your cold fingers in its pelt (under its blanket). You might want a small rag to clean it off -- they get dirty. Not much you can do about the breath (brush your teeth; they don't like yours, either). I forgot my sleeping socks last spring -- summit camp on snow -- put Gwynnie between my icy wet feet, and they were warm in 10 min. and dry in 30. Eight consecutive wet nights Sept. 2011, but once I got this system down, I've never been so cozy on a solo trip. BTW, that trip really convinced me that down gear is unreliable in this climate. These things are available in larger models. Don't try this at home, kids, unless your beast is very mellow. There's something very soothing about a dog snoring softly in your ear. Uh, softly, Gwynnie, softly. I like pile outer pants with a shell and full separating zippers. I had to sew suspenders onto them because the waistband never seems to work with separating zips, but these are easy to take on/off without taking off skis or snowshoes, and the side zips are good for ventilation. Also have some really thick pile pants with drawstring and elastic cuffs that fit over my boots.
Hinman summit bivvy with Pembroke Welsh Electric Blanket
Hinman summit bivvy with Pembroke Welsh Electric Blanket
The darkest hour is always just before the breakfast.
The darkest hour is always just before the breakfast.
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Some people have better things to do with their lives than walking the dog. Some don't.

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mount frosty
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PostMon Feb 09, 2015 8:29 pm 
This is a very interesting thread !

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Brucester
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 8:03 am 
For the hiker who awakes before dawn, put your wool socks on. Or wait for the sun, you'll warm, more in the sun. Not the end of the world, get dry and warm.

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Schroder
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 8:29 am 
The first thing to do is get something hot to drink inside you. That will warm your core really quickly and get the circulation going in your extremities. Change out of the wet base layer. I carry lightweight merino long underwear (I could only find in Canada) as my spare clothing in my pack. A couple of years ago, I slipped and fell into an icy stream on a day hike and was totally soaked. Changing quickly into that merino base layer and my raingear on top was enough to completely warm me up while all my other clothes dried out. I also carry a small Shamwow towel to dry off with - the size of a handkerchief. They're the cheap version of the super absorbent towels at the gear shops.

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DIYSteve
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 11:08 am 
OlyBoots wrote:
Steady light rain. . . But soon you're no longer generating heat, you're wasted, and start to cool. Still raining, maybe 42 degrees F. You chill down fast, your hands chill and stop working, and you have to get in the bag, in the tent, now. . . No warmth left for hanging out in the open.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: next-to-skin semi-VB works better than anything else for these conditions. The fundamental problem with wicking layers in these conditions is that they wick oodles of heat along with the moisture, and the wicking layers sometimes never dry out. It's so much better to contain the heat within a N2S semi-VB and leave the rest of your clothing bone dry in your pack for camp. At breaks, a lightweight shell over the semi-VB is plenty to keep you warm. I have a couple systems for cooking the N2S dry at camp, won't get into them here. Dunno why I bother trying to persuade the masses who fell for the gotta-wick-unless-you-will-die brainwash marketing. I've turned on a couple dozen people to semi-VBs, and often get a PM or email thanking me, often accompanied by a narrative re 40F rainy all day/chilled at breaks and/or camp or similar conditions where wicking strategies fail.

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Schroder
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 11:39 am 
up.gif I agree with Steve - the best way not to get miserably cold in the first place

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jared_j
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 12:13 pm 
BigSteve wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a broken record: next-to-skin semi-VB works better than anything else for these conditions.
I've seen you drumbeat the benefits of this strategy before, and seen specific recommendations for some Mountain Hardwear pieces. I do a sorta version of this with a super thin wicking layer and then a windshirt that is on the less breathable end of things (Houdini). I've always felt like this is a so-so solution but haven't opened my wallet to try out different specialty layers. You sound like you've tried a lot of options out. Could you opine on your personal experience in the trial-and-error process? Surely you gave the windshirt approach a shot. I'm curious your view on the improvement in the system with going to a layer that is less breathable (and more waterproof) than the typical windshirt.

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trestle
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 12:41 pm 
BigSteve, do you wear a short-sleeved shirt under your semi-VB and do you change it out for a dry layer at camp? Also, does wearing a thin long-sleeve synthetic shirt under the semi-VB prevent the VB action if one isn't a heavy sweater or is N2S required for the process? And finally, any chance you're familiar with the First Ascent Sandstone jacket from EB and would it serve the same purpose as your MH semi-vb? A lot to ask but thanks in advance.

"Life favors the prepared." - Edna Mode
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DIYSteve
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PostWed Feb 11, 2015 4:20 pm 
jared_j wrote:
uber thin wicking layer and then a windshirt that is on the less breathable end of things (Houdini). I've always felt like this is a so-so solution
Yup, that's a so-so/below par solution for wet cold weather. I've run 100s of miles with that combo. Never again, unless there's no possibility of rain in the forecast (although other stuff works better even for that). My Houdini used to see lots of use but now hangs on a hook 365 days a year.
trestle wrote:
do you wear a short-sleeved shirt under your semi-VB
No, that would defeat the purpose of next-to-skin semi-VB because the base layer represents a medium for moisture to collect. The essence of N2S is the eliminate that medium, hence the term "next-to-skin (N2S)." It caught on in Europe, especially with XC ski racers, but didn't catch on in USA cuz the concept is contrary to the wick-or-you-will-surely-die marketing crap. N2S semi-VBs also require some instruction or experimentation, i.e., not amenable to sound bite marketing, and most people I saw were wearing base layers under N2S so they never got it. At camp, I usually pull out an ultrathin base layer from my pack and wear it under the N2S semi-VB (but virtually never do any travel in that combo) to get relief from the clamminess and allow the N2S piece to cook dry quicker. I don't know that FA jacket, whether it's a porous softshell or coated/laminate. My requirements for a N2S semi-VB garment are: (a) ePTFE laminate or PU coating, e.g., MH DryQ, Windstopper, that impedes moisture transfer but will allow moisture to cook out during breaks when a shell or insulation is placed over it (thus the "semi" in semi-VB); (b) snug fit when worn next-to-skin (cuz air pockets defeat the function); (c) thin fabric (cuz it's a barrier not an insulator); and (d) fabric has at least a bit of stretch (so that it fits snugly against the skin as you move) MH Effusion Hoody is the best piece I've found after lots of experimentation. The RBH VprThem stuff works well, especially in colder temps, but is heavier than necessary and it doesn't stretch. MH used to make a very thin Windstopper piece (Transition Hoody) that is great for colder weather (I have 2, got 1 of them dirt cheap after it was discontinued). Mammut makes a thin Windstopper piece that works for a bud, okay for colder weather (mid-winter ski touring) but the fabric is way too thick for me. Andrew Skurka, who has endured as much bad weather hiking as anybody,is a steadfast proponent of VBs and has a good discussion re VB theory here. I agree with nearly all he says, but quibble on the margins re a few of his claims, e.g., his suggestion that MH does not make a VB piece, but he gets a pass on that because MH does not market the Effusion Hoody as a VB or semi-VB. See comments above re why that is. I also use semi-VBs, having abandoned full-on VBs awhile ago. Finally, Skurka uses a thin base layer beneath a full-on VB, which I did for years, but the semi-VBs work better for me cuz I sweat alot. (BTW, IMV the RBH VprThrm pieces, which Skurka uses, function as semi-VBs, gradually cooking out moisture when covered with an insulating layer at break or camp.)

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mastertangler
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PostWed Feb 25, 2015 7:40 am 
I was never a big fan of underarmour thinking it was just so much hype. The "Heat Max" long underwear is, simply put, amazing. Period..... I have never seen anything like it and I own a primo set of merino which is now relegated to less extreme situations. They make 2 different sets. You know you have the good set when you have to swallow hard before pulling your dough out. Make absolutely certain you try the bottoms on (do not purchase on-line). For some peculiar reason they make them super tight so I went way big on the bottoms and they fit well without restricting movement.

Lets Go!
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